The Azov battalion has killed from 13,000 upwards of ethnic Russians. It is still continuing in the midst of current events. Ethnic Russians have fled the Donbass for Russia on account of this. This has been going on since the 2014 coup that put the neo-Nazis in the driver's seat. Even now, a Ukrainian Duma deputy has charged the neo-Nazis in Mariupol to surrender and lay down their arms. Or they will be hunted down by the Chechen troops and shot like dogs. There is no fantasy about any of this.
But, since you are asking, it was false claims of genocide ("ethnic cleansing") that the U.S. used to bomb Serbia, so what would be your problem with that as a justification? (Let us consider real claims of ethnic cleansing, which is what is going on in the Donbass, and stop thought experiments.)
The morality does not care about the size of the foe. Go ahead and take down a grizzly bear hand-to-hand. I'll get popcorn and watch. You obviously were incapable of absorbing my point that moral righteousness does not grant a prophecy of success. We have to pick our fights out of prudential considerations. You may enjoy a prospect of suicide, but we part ways on that one.
I'll be glad if you don't sneer.
Putin isn't Hitler, in case you haven't noticed. And the Austrian Germans did not need saving, nor did he claim they did. And they were happy to be brought into the Reich, as you mention. This is a parallel that doesn't go anywhere. Analogies are useful for explanations, but they have no standing as an argument. The republics of Luhansk and Donetsk were formed for the purpose of isolating the inhabitants (mostly ethnic Russians) from the genocidal actions of the Ukrainian central government.
The Ukrainians are essentially finished as a military entity. A 4 March internal assessment of the Ukrainian government estimated 70% of the Ukrainian armed forces were either destroyed, captured, or out of action, and that the Russians were in control of 40% of Ukrainian territory. What is going on now is not warfare, so much as demilitarization (destruction of all military capability), denazification (hunting down the neo-Nazi militias and liquidating them), and bringing the cities under humanitarian control. This requires fighting to dislodge the Ukrianian army and militias from their hiding places among the civilians. Use of human shields is a specific war crime that Zelensky is guilty of and the Russians have no culpability under international law for returning fire on any attack.
You don't think any of this is true? Then time will tell. It was only days ago that the biological laboratories were a "conspiracy theory." That didn't age so well when Victoria Nuland admitted their existence in sworn testimony to the Senate and stated that steps should be taken to prevent the Russians from gaining access to deadly pathogens.
As we have observed so many times on this board, the evildoers project their actions on others---and project others' actions on themselves. The popular media blitz that Ukraine is kicking Russia's ass is utterly laughable, and Putin is probably doing most of the laughing. He knows the globalists in the West have a huge vested interest in their Ukrainian playground not being exposed and they will concoct any lie to serve their purpose. The news out of Ukraine drips with falsehood. There is no "Ghost of Kyiv" guarding the air. The garrison on Snake Island was not killed to a man---they all surrendered. The "Russian tank" that drove over a car was really a Ukrainian tank that went out of control.
You seem to be debating things that I haven't said. Regurgitating Putin talking points really does not further the point. As it seems to be the case as of late, there is no room for nuance among the polarized.
Russia doesn't get to shell apartment buildings and shoot up grandma and grandpa in a civilian vehicle, and then claim the city is under 'humanitarian' control. If the mission was humanitarian, Ukraine citizens would welcome Russian forces, clearly that's not the case. It's laughable.
My point is that neither side has clean hands. The fact that Russia is moving past Luhansk and Donetsk, proves that it's not about those territories.
If you claim to have a moral authority to invade Ukraine, that falls apart when you give a pass to China.
We can cheer on the destruction of biolabs but that doesn't justify the invasion of a sovereign nation. Ultimately, the enemy of my enemy does not make them my friend. I think that gets lost, even among Q followers.
Actually, they are welcoming the Russian forces, which are liberating them from the oppression of the nationalist militia. There are plenty of images of humanitarian goods being distributed to mass crowds in Melitopol, for example. The Ukrainian forces and militias are deliberately operating from otherwise protected locations: hospitals, kindergartens, schools, private residences. This is called using human shields and is an specified war crime. Russia has clean hands in engaging combatants. The Ukrainians have a positive obligation to keep their forces segregated from civilians, but they are failing to do this. The siege of Mariupol was broken when the Chechens finally got to the headquarters of the Azov battalion unit there, which was in a theater; the militia had been keeping civilians as hostages in the lobby. Or do you disagree with the Geneva Convention that human shields should not be allowed? The U.S. has never let that be a concern in the combat operations it has followed. We just shrug off "collateral damage" as "That's War."
Luhansk and Donetsk have been cleaned up and their respective armed forces have joined the Russian action, mainly by keeping order but also mopping up isolated units of the Ukrainian forces.
I gave no moral pass to China and you are a bare-faced liar to say so. I only said that prudence controls which fights we get into. Have you ever intervened to help someone in violent trouble? I have, twice. In the first occasion, I had to step in and interrupt a Mexican gang beating of an Anglo kid. In the second occasion, I had to intervene in an attempted rape. If you can't understand the limitations of one's physical ability, all the moral righteousness in the world will not prevent you from searching for your teeth in a puddle.
A "sovereign nation" fails to be one when it violates the precept that governments obtain their just powers from the consent of the governed. Any government that countenances genocide loses all legitimacy. It is no longer a government but a carnivorous predator.
P.S. Don't be too sure that what is presented as "Russian atrocities" have anything to do with the Russian forces. Ukraine has already promoted a number of outright lies (the nonexistent "Ghost of Kyiv," the bogus "Russian" tank that drove over a car [it was Ukrainian], the massacre of the garrison on Snake Island [all surrendered without harm]). They have presented repainted Ukrainian armored vehicles as being captured Russian vehicles. And they have presented the victims of Ukrainian fire as being Russian atrocities.
You cannot quote me giving China a moral pass. I did not. What bubble? Truth isn't always what we expect or want. Or, it may turn our understanding upside down. In any case, I see that you have no answer to my other points.
The Azov battalion has killed from 13,000 upwards of ethnic Russians. It is still continuing in the midst of current events. Ethnic Russians have fled the Donbass for Russia on account of this. This has been going on since the 2014 coup that put the neo-Nazis in the driver's seat. Even now, a Ukrainian Duma deputy has charged the neo-Nazis in Mariupol to surrender and lay down their arms. Or they will be hunted down by the Chechen troops and shot like dogs. There is no fantasy about any of this.
But, since you are asking, it was false claims of genocide ("ethnic cleansing") that the U.S. used to bomb Serbia, so what would be your problem with that as a justification? (Let us consider real claims of ethnic cleansing, which is what is going on in the Donbass, and stop thought experiments.)
The morality does not care about the size of the foe. Go ahead and take down a grizzly bear hand-to-hand. I'll get popcorn and watch. You obviously were incapable of absorbing my point that moral righteousness does not grant a prophecy of success. We have to pick our fights out of prudential considerations. You may enjoy a prospect of suicide, but we part ways on that one.
I'll be glad if you don't sneer.
Putin isn't Hitler, in case you haven't noticed. And the Austrian Germans did not need saving, nor did he claim they did. And they were happy to be brought into the Reich, as you mention. This is a parallel that doesn't go anywhere. Analogies are useful for explanations, but they have no standing as an argument. The republics of Luhansk and Donetsk were formed for the purpose of isolating the inhabitants (mostly ethnic Russians) from the genocidal actions of the Ukrainian central government.
The Ukrainians are essentially finished as a military entity. A 4 March internal assessment of the Ukrainian government estimated 70% of the Ukrainian armed forces were either destroyed, captured, or out of action, and that the Russians were in control of 40% of Ukrainian territory. What is going on now is not warfare, so much as demilitarization (destruction of all military capability), denazification (hunting down the neo-Nazi militias and liquidating them), and bringing the cities under humanitarian control. This requires fighting to dislodge the Ukrianian army and militias from their hiding places among the civilians. Use of human shields is a specific war crime that Zelensky is guilty of and the Russians have no culpability under international law for returning fire on any attack.
You don't think any of this is true? Then time will tell. It was only days ago that the biological laboratories were a "conspiracy theory." That didn't age so well when Victoria Nuland admitted their existence in sworn testimony to the Senate and stated that steps should be taken to prevent the Russians from gaining access to deadly pathogens.
As we have observed so many times on this board, the evildoers project their actions on others---and project others' actions on themselves. The popular media blitz that Ukraine is kicking Russia's ass is utterly laughable, and Putin is probably doing most of the laughing. He knows the globalists in the West have a huge vested interest in their Ukrainian playground not being exposed and they will concoct any lie to serve their purpose. The news out of Ukraine drips with falsehood. There is no "Ghost of Kyiv" guarding the air. The garrison on Snake Island was not killed to a man---they all surrendered. The "Russian tank" that drove over a car was really a Ukrainian tank that went out of control.
You seem to be debating things that I haven't said. Regurgitating Putin talking points really does not further the point. As it seems to be the case as of late, there is no room for nuance among the polarized.
Russia doesn't get to shell apartment buildings and shoot up grandma and grandpa in a civilian vehicle, and then claim the city is under 'humanitarian' control. If the mission was humanitarian, Ukraine citizens would welcome Russian forces, clearly that's not the case. It's laughable.
My point is that neither side has clean hands. The fact that Russia is moving past Luhansk and Donetsk, proves that it's not about those territories.
If you claim to have a moral authority to invade Ukraine, that falls apart when you give a pass to China.
We can cheer on the destruction of biolabs but that doesn't justify the invasion of a sovereign nation. Ultimately, the enemy of my enemy does not make them my friend. I think that gets lost, even among Q followers.
Actually, they are welcoming the Russian forces, which are liberating them from the oppression of the nationalist militia. There are plenty of images of humanitarian goods being distributed to mass crowds in Melitopol, for example. The Ukrainian forces and militias are deliberately operating from otherwise protected locations: hospitals, kindergartens, schools, private residences. This is called using human shields and is an specified war crime. Russia has clean hands in engaging combatants. The Ukrainians have a positive obligation to keep their forces segregated from civilians, but they are failing to do this. The siege of Mariupol was broken when the Chechens finally got to the headquarters of the Azov battalion unit there, which was in a theater; the militia had been keeping civilians as hostages in the lobby. Or do you disagree with the Geneva Convention that human shields should not be allowed? The U.S. has never let that be a concern in the combat operations it has followed. We just shrug off "collateral damage" as "That's War."
Luhansk and Donetsk have been cleaned up and their respective armed forces have joined the Russian action, mainly by keeping order but also mopping up isolated units of the Ukrainian forces.
I gave no moral pass to China and you are a bare-faced liar to say so. I only said that prudence controls which fights we get into. Have you ever intervened to help someone in violent trouble? I have, twice. In the first occasion, I had to step in and interrupt a Mexican gang beating of an Anglo kid. In the second occasion, I had to intervene in an attempted rape. If you can't understand the limitations of one's physical ability, all the moral righteousness in the world will not prevent you from searching for your teeth in a puddle.
A "sovereign nation" fails to be one when it violates the precept that governments obtain their just powers from the consent of the governed. Any government that countenances genocide loses all legitimacy. It is no longer a government but a carnivorous predator.
P.S. Don't be too sure that what is presented as "Russian atrocities" have anything to do with the Russian forces. Ukraine has already promoted a number of outright lies (the nonexistent "Ghost of Kyiv," the bogus "Russian" tank that drove over a car [it was Ukrainian], the massacre of the garrison on Snake Island [all surrendered without harm]). They have presented repainted Ukrainian armored vehicles as being captured Russian vehicles. And they have presented the victims of Ukrainian fire as being Russian atrocities.
Yep, you did.
If you only knew.
I see there is no moving you from your bubble. C'est la vie.
You cannot quote me giving China a moral pass. I did not. What bubble? Truth isn't always what we expect or want. Or, it may turn our understanding upside down. In any case, I see that you have no answer to my other points.