You don't know though - you merely believe through abject appeal to authority. And frankly, if you are a scientist you should know better :(
I have to think some of the people pushing the idea are trying to make us look like nuts.
Kookifying, they call it. It does seem that way, but truth is stranger than fiction because fiction is obliged to possibilities... Would you care to have an earnest discussion with someone with different views than your own, in the collaborative pursuit of truth? If you earnestly engage, i think you will find the conversation rewarding regardless of if it has any impact on your perspectives (or vice versa - on my perspectives!)!
Normally I do engage in discussions with people who disagree.
The problem is that I am a personal witness. My brother did the programming for reassembling the data stream into pictures. I did work as a scientist at JPL/NASA but I didn't like taking tax money from people for my salary so I left.
What do you do when you are a personal witness to something and someone says it never happened? They essentially say I am lying. It's hard to have a discussion with someone who simply says you are lying.
I saw with my own eyes. They say I'm a liar.
I welcome your advice on how to handle that. I'm stumped, and I really wonder if that person was just there to make us look stupid.
Normally I do engage in discussions with people who disagree.
Most excellent! It can be very tedious, and I can appreciate wanting to "pick your battles" carefully. Ars longa, vita brevis.
The problem is that I am a personal witness
I do not doubt that. In fact, I am most interested to explore (if you are interested to share) what you have witnessed, for the benefit of all!
I did work as a scientist at JPL/NASA but I didn't like taking tax money from people for my salary so I left.
That's boss. I doubt many have the same qualms. JPL/NASA is a pretty sweet gig, depending on job responsibilities/security. Walking away was likely not easy, and I massively respect your will and principles.
What do you do when you are a personal witness to something and someone says it never happened?
Tough question. The normal thing is to flippantly discard them, especially when you have first hand knowledge and they have something distinctly lesser (or nothing at all!). Perhaps the more "considerate" thing is to potentially hear them out anyway, on the slim chance that you have been fooled/misled.
My contention is not that you have not witnessed the things that you witnessed!
I saw with my own eyes. They say I'm a liar.
Well, in fairness - you could be!! I could be too, and in truth we both are! But I don't think you are lying about this, and my initial perspective is one of "benefit of the doubt". I assume you are telling the truth until I have good reason to question/challenge that. Also, people who rush to declare something a lie, and the speaker a liar are most often overlooking the most common (essentially inevitable) possibility - being incorrect! Can't anybody just be wrong anymore? Do they have to automatically be a liar?! I'm sorry for your past experiences, sincerely. I've been called a liar, and a shill, and disearnest by scores at the drop of a hat :( It is not conducive to conversation :(
I'm stumped, and I really wonder if that person was just there to make us look stupid.
It is a distinct (and maybe most likely) possibility. The flat earth psyop and the zealous useful idiots it encourages are trained to attack and divide. Anything but encourage collaboration and earnest discussion/exchange. Anyone who threatens your religion must be attacked with prejudice. Typical dogmatic cult behavior :(
As for advice, I wish I had some to give. For the disearnest (the agents of the psyop) there is no remedy, for the earnest (useful idiots, confused) sometimes deescalation and polite discourse can get through!
You have an abundance of wisdom. Thank you for sharing it with me.
There were some qualms about leaving NASA/JPL but the reality is that I would have had to be a lying ass kisser to remain there, and I'm not very good at that. They actually do as little science as possible so as to have an excuse to get more grant money.
I could tell you what I witnessed if you are interested. Perhaps you could narrow it down, as I have a long list of things witnessed over the years. Even before I worked there my brothers did so my experiences span decades.
You have an abundance of wisdom. Thank you for sharing it with me.
I don't know about wisdom, but whatever I may have, I try (and it is best ) to share!
They actually do as little science as possible so as to have an excuse to get more grant money.
That is sad, but not altogether unexpected based on my understanding.
I could tell you what I witnessed if you are interested. Perhaps you could narrow it down, as I have a long list of things witnessed over the years. Even before I worked there my brothers did so my experiences span decades.
It would be my sincere and great pleasure, and I am quite interested!
I would love to know more about your experiences, as well as your brothers! Would you consider having the discussion on the community i created? NP if you'd prefer to continue here, but I think others there would also benefit from your experience too! It is my hope that people looking for such first hand accounts would benefit from finding them there in the future as well (not lost in a, largely unrelated, thread on a largely unrelated community)
As for narrowing it down, why don't we start with what evidence you have for outer space existing in any way, shape, or form! Based on my study, such a place is entirely fictional and a total violation of the scientific laws we know of.
You don't know though - you merely believe through abject appeal to authority. And frankly, if you are a scientist you should know better :(
Kookifying, they call it. It does seem that way, but truth is stranger than fiction because fiction is obliged to possibilities... Would you care to have an earnest discussion with someone with different views than your own, in the collaborative pursuit of truth? If you earnestly engage, i think you will find the conversation rewarding regardless of if it has any impact on your perspectives (or vice versa - on my perspectives!)!
Normally I do engage in discussions with people who disagree.
The problem is that I am a personal witness. My brother did the programming for reassembling the data stream into pictures. I did work as a scientist at JPL/NASA but I didn't like taking tax money from people for my salary so I left.
What do you do when you are a personal witness to something and someone says it never happened? They essentially say I am lying. It's hard to have a discussion with someone who simply says you are lying.
I saw with my own eyes. They say I'm a liar.
I welcome your advice on how to handle that. I'm stumped, and I really wonder if that person was just there to make us look stupid.
Most excellent! It can be very tedious, and I can appreciate wanting to "pick your battles" carefully. Ars longa, vita brevis.
I do not doubt that. In fact, I am most interested to explore (if you are interested to share) what you have witnessed, for the benefit of all!
That's boss. I doubt many have the same qualms. JPL/NASA is a pretty sweet gig, depending on job responsibilities/security. Walking away was likely not easy, and I massively respect your will and principles.
Tough question. The normal thing is to flippantly discard them, especially when you have first hand knowledge and they have something distinctly lesser (or nothing at all!). Perhaps the more "considerate" thing is to potentially hear them out anyway, on the slim chance that you have been fooled/misled.
My contention is not that you have not witnessed the things that you witnessed!
Well, in fairness - you could be!! I could be too, and in truth we both are! But I don't think you are lying about this, and my initial perspective is one of "benefit of the doubt". I assume you are telling the truth until I have good reason to question/challenge that. Also, people who rush to declare something a lie, and the speaker a liar are most often overlooking the most common (essentially inevitable) possibility - being incorrect! Can't anybody just be wrong anymore? Do they have to automatically be a liar?! I'm sorry for your past experiences, sincerely. I've been called a liar, and a shill, and disearnest by scores at the drop of a hat :( It is not conducive to conversation :(
It is a distinct (and maybe most likely) possibility. The flat earth psyop and the zealous useful idiots it encourages are trained to attack and divide. Anything but encourage collaboration and earnest discussion/exchange. Anyone who threatens your religion must be attacked with prejudice. Typical dogmatic cult behavior :(
As for advice, I wish I had some to give. For the disearnest (the agents of the psyop) there is no remedy, for the earnest (useful idiots, confused) sometimes deescalation and polite discourse can get through!
You have an abundance of wisdom. Thank you for sharing it with me.
There were some qualms about leaving NASA/JPL but the reality is that I would have had to be a lying ass kisser to remain there, and I'm not very good at that. They actually do as little science as possible so as to have an excuse to get more grant money.
I could tell you what I witnessed if you are interested. Perhaps you could narrow it down, as I have a long list of things witnessed over the years. Even before I worked there my brothers did so my experiences span decades.
I don't know about wisdom, but whatever I may have, I try (and it is best ) to share!
That is sad, but not altogether unexpected based on my understanding.
It would be my sincere and great pleasure, and I am quite interested!
I would love to know more about your experiences, as well as your brothers! Would you consider having the discussion on the community i created? NP if you'd prefer to continue here, but I think others there would also benefit from your experience too! It is my hope that people looking for such first hand accounts would benefit from finding them there in the future as well (not lost in a, largely unrelated, thread on a largely unrelated community)
As for narrowing it down, why don't we start with what evidence you have for outer space existing in any way, shape, or form! Based on my study, such a place is entirely fictional and a total violation of the scientific laws we know of.