even if you give a fuck about things like animal welfare or environment

If a person is concerned about these things, they should NEVER be a vegan. That diet is the MOST harmful to the environment.

It is also true that the vegan diet kills far more animals than a carnivore diet, due to the killing of field mice and other small animals in the harvesting process.

If you want to have some fun, bring up the fact that more animals are killed by a vegan diet than a carnovore diet, and then sit back and watch them squirm as they try to justify that "those animals don't count." LOL.