"God’s people are still prone to think with carnal minds. When they read in the prophecies of the Bible about the gathering of kings unto battle, and the fighting of great wars, immediately their attention is focused on world events rather than on the things of God. This fallacy-ridden practice has given rise to what has been rightly termed “newspaper eschatology” — studying current events in the arena of “this present evil world” rather than searching the mind of the Spirit for the wisdom and understanding God gives of the true thing He is doing in the earth by His Spirit! The work of God is not currently outside of us, not out there in the world of darkness with all of its plans and efforts and shamefully fleshly activities and wicked schemes. The work of God is within His people! “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13). Sons of God do not derive their theology from the newspapers nor the television news casts. What you read and hear there is not what God is doing! Nor is it what God is talking about! That is not where God’s work is seen! Nor is that what God is concerned with! The Holy Spirit of God has not come within us to show us what the world system is up to — He has come to “take the things of Christ and show them unto us!”
Much more in the link:
"When the Holy Spirit gives us revelation it is not to bless us with juicy tidbits of information about the intentions, activities and movements of the government or military machine of the United States, Russia, Iraq, Iran, Israel, the European Union, Al Queda, the Taliban, or any other of the nations of earth or national and world leaders! Let us seek to abandon all such side issues and seek diligently to concentrate on Christ and spiritual things! Those who will possess the mind of Christ will find in Him the source and substance of all reality and the culmination of all purpose. We hear a great deal today about many wonderful things. As we draw nearer to the manifestation of the sons of God, and the full light of God’s new day sends its illuminating rays upon our waiting souls, there will be an ever-increasing flood of light and revelation. This we must certainly expect and accept, for every new day brings new things, and new dispensations are sent to flood the world with greater light and greater experience in God. But the “new things” are God’s things — not the world’s things! The “things that must shortly come to pass” are spiritual things, divine things, heavenly things, supernatural things — not the things of the world, the flesh, and the devil! “As it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God” (I Cor. 2:9-10). The spirit within us is not searching out the intentions and movements of Russia, China, Israel, or Europe — oh, no! His revelation to John the beloved — and to you and me, my friend — concerns the DEEP THINGS OF GOD! Isn’t it wonderful!"
"Now let us return to our subject of the battle at Armageddon. The book of Revelation is the fighting book of the New Testament. In its brief twenty-two chapters the words “to war” and “to make war” are used fifteen times! The words are found in all the rest of the New Testament but fourteen times. It reveals a great significance when we see that two hundred and thirty-eight New Testament chapters use the words fourteen times, while twenty-two chapters of the Revelation employ them fifteen times. This certainly indicates a purpose deeper than the mere incidents of literary expression. None of these words appear in the four Gospels or in the Epistles of John. And yet the author of the Epistles of John also wrote the book of Revelation! This certainly identifies the theme of the Revelation as one of warfare! And once we know that “though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds; casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ,” — once we understand the nature of this warfare as spiritual warfare all the carnal, traditional interpretations of the book of Revelation are turned upside-down!"
once we understand the nature of this warfare as spiritual warfare all the carnal, traditional interpretations of the book of Revelation are turned upside-down!"
You know if you travel to Sodom right now, on the southern end of the Dead Sea, you can find balls of sulfur laying everywhere, remains of the houses that used to exist there and not one soul alive in the area, just like the scriptures spoke of. Do we think God lied about this too?
I'm not thinking God lies at all, doctrine does though.
God spoke about this in His Word, it actually happened and you're calling it "doctrine?"
Revelation is not talking about the physical world. That is a doctrine. Now if your doctrine is Revelation is talking about the physical world, one of our doctrines is a lie. I'm 100% on the whole Revelation is spiritual, not any of it is physical. Literally spiritual.
If you would study the Old Testament, instead of the words of the happy crank, you would see that there have been "dress rehearsals," what we call "types," of everything that has been prophecied in Revelation. Noah's ark was a type of the rapture of the righteous, the flood was a type of God's wrath on the wicked and Noah's family is a type of the Jewish remnant that will carry on after tribulation. I can see evidence of Noah's flood everywhere I look. Do you deny that this literally took place?
The Greek word polemeō is used in Rev 2:16, and I don’t think the traditional interpretation of that verse is turned upside down.
GP with the false dilemma.
The first post in this thread had, “Revelation is not talking about…” then the first reply asked about the destruction of Sodom in Genesis. Then there was these quoted comments where the first post was on whether Revelation is speaking to the physical or the spiritual. The response was on the literal event of the flood in Genesis. It sounds to me like there’s an implied implication that taking an event in Genesis as literally happening is a determining factor for interpreting the book of Revelation.
Without providing evidence, the article author is saying that everyone else’s interpretation of Revelation for 2,000 years is turned upside down. Without the evidence, I’ll kindly disregard this unsupported assertion.
Yes, and now think of the next logical conclusion of this line of thinking; that Jesus Christ didn't literally come in the flesh. The spiritualization is just plain dangerous.
"To be consistent, if one takes the reference to Armageddon literally, then he ought also to take the reference to the three slick, slimy frogs literally. Both references appear in the same passage! Yet no one ever suggests that there will be three creatures resembling frogs literally going about over the earth, landing at airports, conferring with the heads of state of many nations, seeking allies and recruits for this battle. In order to follow the path of consistency as witnessed again and again throughout the book of Revelation, we must look upon this reference to Armageddon as symbolic imagery, as with the reference to frogs. These are not descriptions of national and world events, but of the outworkings of the mighty spiritual purposes of God!"
Yes there will be. Evil spirits manifested themselves in hogs after Jesus Christ cast them out of a person. The nest of every unclean and foul bird, literal.
Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah after going to Sodom to warn Lot to leave mediately before he destroyed it. He used nuclear like weapon...the kavod was a war space craft..read descriptions of it..the noise it made..the fire the wheels.... yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah over a territory dispute. He nuked the tower of Babel and Sumeria for the same reason...fear of other elohim ....and losing territory given to him by Elyon.
Perfect timing.
"There are words and phrases, signs and symbols in the Revelation that have held and still hold a place in Christian thought out of all proportion to their importance to the overall vision John saw on Patmos. For some reason they stand out like snow-capped peaks in a mountain range. Barrels of midnight oil have been burned by zealous students trying to unravel the riddle of “666,” “Antichrist,” “Armageddon,” or the “Millennium.” Not because of the over-riding importance of these things in the visions of the Revelation, but because of their prominence in Christian thought and current literature they merit special attention as we pass through the mysteries of this book. The fact is, the term “Antichrist” is altogether foreign to the book of Revelation — it never appears anywhere, not even once! And yet we constantly hear from preachers things about a supposed “Antichrist” in the book of Revelation! And “Armageddon” appears only one time in the whole book, here in our present text. The term “Armageddon” awakens in many minds a kind of superstitious dread of some awful crisis, they hardly know what, but a dreadful day that will make all other crises in history pale into insignificance."
Barrels of midnight oil have been burned by zealous students trying to unravel the riddle of “666,” “Antichrist,” “Armageddon,” or the “Millennium.”
I understand all of this completely. Seven is a perfect number, the Lord uses it the number the days of creation, and the days of our weeks and many other things. The number six is short of perfection, on the 7th Day the Lord sanctified the creation. Three sixes equals the trinity of evil, the false prophet, the antiChrist and Satan.
The millennium is the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth. It is prophesied in the Old Testament a hundred times if not more. Jesus Christ will return to the temple in Jerusalem and sit on the throne of David, ruling over the Earth with a rod of iron.
Maybe your boy has been blinded by God, if he can't see these things?
Adolf Hitler, heaven or hell?
Did he repent and take Jesus the Christ as his Lord and Savior before died?
Not that I'm aware of.
Rhetorical question. None of us can know.
"The book of Revelation is a message from heaven about something that is taking place which cannot be seen except in the spirit, and by revelation. It is an apocalypse. It’s not what men call an apocalypse, as though somehow the destruction of the world would make it a better place. As though millions of people running in fear for their lives from giant scorpions and swarming locusts out of the abyss, crouching in fear from one-hundred pound hailstones falling out of the sky, drinking the blood of dead men from their faucets, being burned to a crisp by the heat of the sun, one-third of the human race being blown into eternity by atomic warfare — as though all this and many more unspeakable horrors are somehow an appropriate climax to this great story of the Bible. Such crude, perverted ideas are so very sad! They are so disgustingly sadistic! It is remarkable, to say the least, that literal events such as these, should be represented by supposedly spiritual men as THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST! Such distorted “logic” reminds me of the little story I heard some years ago which went like this — One bright day in the middle of the night two dead soldiers got up to fight. Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot one another. If you don’t believe this story is true, ask the blind man — he saw it too!"
Such crude, perverted ideas are so very sad! They are so disgustingly sadistic!
Oh, dude, I wouldn't go there. Waters turned to blood have already been done, ask the Egyptians about it. The Antichrist sacrifices people in the temple and then eats them. What do you think he comes out of hell to do, play patty cakes?
What do you suggest the Lord does with all this evil? Every time I open my eyes and look around, I see cruel and sadistic acts and people that need to be burned out. There's a whole class of people that prey on our children, would you like to play patty cakes with em? There's a whole class of people that knowingly and proudly carrying around Egyptian Bibles, leading innocent people away from the Lord and right into hell with their false doctrines. Fire or patty cakes?
Antichrist is not a physical being, it is not once mentioned in the book of Revelation. Antichrist is something that is to be fought in the inner battle of each of us.
Rev 13:11 KJV And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
This would be the one you're looking for.
So you want to name the beast the antichrist.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
If you missed all of this, it tells me that you really do need to start studying the Bible, instead of listening to this crank.
Covered those versed a while back, I can dig the study up for you, but yes, that is all spiritual happenings in humanity.
Preston Eby is a Bible teacer, he spent decades on this syudy, his doctrine and interpretation differs from what you have been fed, call him names as you like, it's nothing new, what did they call Jesus? All who stand for truth will be ridiculed.
If Jesus Christ came in the flesh and told the Sanhedrin don't worry about it, why did they kill Him?
The Antichrist is Judas Iscariot. The scripture's referred to him as the man of sin, son of perdition and Jesus Christ called him a devil. He is currently in his place in hell, waiting to come back in the clouds, so that all the dimwits that don't know their scriptures will think we're being invaded by aliens. His false prophet, the pope, will "bless" him and welcome him as the messiah.
He Sufis call it jihad..the inner conflict between the head and the heart. Don't act unless the heart and head agree.....peace comes then.
swarming locusts out of the abyss,
My Lord has a great sense of humor. To give us a type of the coming locusts, He planted that silly hat on top of the clown catholic bishops, that makes them look exactly like a locust. We already know they most certainly came up from the pit.
"But there is a huge mountain of Babylon that God is erasing! Great is the mystery!"
"Get beyond the outer, natural, carnal understanding, my beloved brethren, and look into the spirit, into the heart of our heavenly Father, and see that the revelation of Jesus Christ is not something you can see with the natural eye or touch with physical hands, for it must be revealed in you. Paul understood this when he wrote, “…it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me” (Gal. 1:15-16). If you can understand that premise, that when John saw these scenes he was in the spirit, you will perceive the mystery of the Revelation, for John beheld all these things from a spiritual perspective."
"Other basic words in the vocabulary of conflict also appear in it. The two New Testament (Greek) words for “sword” appear in the Revelation. Luke is the only other writer to employ both of them. Omitting duplications, the words for “sword” appear twenty times in all the rest of the New Testament and eleven times in the Revelation. Two words for “chariot” are used in the New Testament and both appear in the Revelation. “Chief Captains,” who are military leaders, are mentioned twice in the Revelation. The fighting Parthians tied up the tails of their war horses in compact, pointed fashion until they looked like serpents. In one of John’s visions he sees in type just such a picture — two hundred million war horses with tails like serpents charge across the stage of this drama. The shape of the locusts was said to be “like horses prepared for war.” The sound of their wings was like the sound of many horses and chariots rushing to war. But the greatest warrior of all in the book of Revelation is none other than God’s Christ! Surely no one thinks that HE makes war with tanks and guns and missiles and bombs! “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful” (Rev. 17:14). “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war” (Rev. 19:11)."
"But is Armageddon really a superpower confrontation? Is it a war between the United States and Russia, or between Russia, Europe, and Israel? Or some other such scenario? Statesmen, scientists, and generals have long warned of a “nuclear Armageddon” that could annihilate mankind from the face of the earth. Many believed that World War I — and later World War II — would end with Armageddon. Some today believe that Armageddon will be the last battle between the democratic nations and the communist block. But did you know that nowhere in the Bible — from Genesis to Revelation — is there any mention of a “battle of Armageddon”? After all, it’s only mentioned one time in the entire Bible! “And he gathered them together into a place called… Armageddon.” We see here that Armageddon is described as a place, not an event. It is the place of gathering in preparation for battle. But that is not the name of the battle! It is not the battle “of” Armageddon, but “the battle OF THE GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY!” Oh, yes! It is GOD’S BATTLE — THE BATTLE OF GOD’S GREAT DAY! And that is how we can know that this is a SPIRITUAL BATTLE!"
"Jesus has already passed His Armageddon! He passed it when in the garden, in agony of soul, sweating great drops of blood, He said, “Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but Thine be done” (Lk. 22:42). He passed through His darkest hour of battle and arose on the other side victorious over death, hell, and the grave! “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil” (Heb. 2:14). “And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it” (Col. 2:15). “That ye may know…the mighty power which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might, and dominion, and every name that is named…and hath PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET” (Eph. 1:18-21)."
"You will not read the fulfillment of its prophecies on the pages of Time magazine, Newsweek, or USA Today, but you will see them manifest in the lives of men and women! The word of the Lord in its spiritual meaning does not describe for us the carnal warfare between nations. For what have wars between nations to do with the kingdom of God? The kingdom of God does not come by the sword nor as a result of it, so of what importance in the outworking of God’s kingdom on earth are the conflicts between nations and empires? They have no meaning whatsoever! The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but are mighty through God! The battles beheld in spirit by the eagle-eyed seer of Patmos signify spiritual combats, combats between light and darkness, between spirit and flesh, between truth and error, between righteousness and unrighteousness, between the precious mind of Christ and the vile carnal mind, between life and death. A man must experience this combat within himself to become a spiritual conqueror and gain the crown of life! A war in the Middle East has absolutely nothing to do with this! Our Lord, in the days of His flesh, carried on such spiritual warfare in an infinitely greater way than others, overcoming the compounded powers of the world, the flesh, the devil — and finally death itself! What a warfare! What a victory! How the mighty battles of the Roman Empire pale in contrast with this! The first and second World Wars accomplished essentially nothing for humanity compared with what Jesus won! He has opened up the way to victory and triumph over every enemy of sin, sorrow, limitation, and death for all who are willing to follow Him into the power of the kingdom of God! Our Lord is a spiritual conqueror! And the book of Revelation is addressed to “him that overcometh!” That is a military term! “Him that overcometh” does so at ARMAGEDDON! That should settle in every heart what kind of warfare the book presents!"
Let's go and tell all the little evil people in the world, don't worry about it, you can do whatever you want in this life, you can rape little children and then toss them alive into a fire, you can steal from the poor, you can lead people away from the Lord Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter, God is going to make you into a little angel after the end of this age. So don't you listen to those people talking about God's wrath, they don't know what they're saying.
Andy, no matter how much you want God’s physical vengeance on the evil world, changing spiritual things to physical things is not going to make it happen. People get a messed up notion since Gods vengeance is physical, mine can be too.
People also get a messed up notion that they are some kind of psychologist that has all the answers, and tear apart God's Word instead of trusting in them.
This world is full of bimbos who say that God doesn't care when they see evil things happen. Meanwhile, up in heaven, God is storing up His wrath, His righteous anger about the same evil things, for the day of vengeance. This is what we should be preaching, so that people know that God cares and have faith in Him.
The location of Armageddon is currently called Megiddo, look it up on the map. It is a vast plain that leads to a narrow choke point, with high ground on both sides of it. It's a perfect place to slaughter the evil forces on the day of the Lord. This information provided to all who like to spiritualize everything in the book of Revelation.
Stop literalizing a spiritual book. All of Revelation is symbolic, signifying spiritual things with earthly ideas. Not one bit of it is physical, it all happens in the Spirit. It is literally Jesus Christ taking kingship of our world, that is all done in you.
Sorry but God's Word is not a non-violent protest.
It's not called the sword for nothing. The war and violence is all in the spiritual man, it is literally carnality being killed, so the spiritual can rule, that is what Revelation is about, that is what is happening in you and me.
Why didn't He call it a prescription of Prozac instead of a sword? A mystical God trying to trick us?
God is Spirit Andy
God appeared before many in his glorified body of flesh. They took hold of him. Are you denying this too?
One can make the scriptures say anything they want when they start "Spiritualizing" everything it says.
The scriptures are spiritual, they can only be comprehended with spiritual mind.
You equivocate on the meaning of "spiritual" to mean "symbolic."
While I agree with your above statement, this is not to say that the Bible cannot be understood or interpreted properly by understanding the use of literary devices being used by it's authors. There is both allegory and literary devices being used in the Bible. The question is when is each literary device being used. When do we take the text literally and when do we take it allegorical/symbolically? That is the question.
It's not the job of the Spirit of God to teach you proper Biblical Hermeneutics or how to parse verbs and nouns etc....
Lean too far in one direction, and spiritualize everything, and you make the text mean whatever you want it to. Lean too far in the other direction, and take the text too literally, you'll lose the benefit of allegory (like Jesus uses to teach his disciples with) and symbols.
You lean too far towards spiritualizing everything in the Bible, therefore you toss out any literal reference in Revelation. That's not a principle you find within the book of Revelation - you find that within your own presuppositions that you then bring to the text.
I would invite you to take a look at the whole study, beginning with the first essay.
Here is the link:
https://www.godfire.net/eby/
I've been in the study for over a year now, I'm not an expert on Bible interpretation, but I've been around, I find Eby's reasoning for a spiritual symbolism interpretation to be the best I've found on the topic. Eby spent a lifetime on such matters, he recently passed away this year :)
What you (and J. Preston Eby) are espousing is "Latter Rain Movement" teaching, which is heretical.
Latter Rain teaching is characterized by a highly typological hermeneutic. That is, the Bible is interpreted in a symbolic, extremely stylized manner. An emphasis is placed on extra-biblical revelation, such as personal prophecies, experiences, and directives straight from God
Many “apostles” in the Latter Rain Movement also teach the doctrine of “the manifest sons of God.” This is a heretical doctrine which says that the Church will give rise to a special group of “overcomers” who will receive spiritual bodies, becoming immortal.
For more information on the Latter Rain Movement see here:
https://www.gotquestions.org/latter-rain-movement.html
I know the doctrine, there is no present day Latter Day Reign movement, if there is, I'm not aware. Eby speaks of his time in that movement, he is/was no longer a part of it, he left all organized sectarian groups. Christ is the head we are His body.
Anyway, his doctrine does take some getting used to, but mostly doesn't ruin his spiritual interpretation, you just have to eat the fish and spit out the bones. I have the ability to do that, it seems most other prefer locked into sectarianism.
You of course know heresy is party spirit or sectarianism. My group is the right group type of thinking, Christ is not devided.
Give it a critical read if you're of a mind to, I share it because I think the Body of Christ needs it.