I will admit that I don't know what happens in the side degrees, but FM proper is basically grown ups playing panto and collecting for charity (including their own).
How the F are you guys on this board talking about Freemasonry is a nice organization.
That's certainly not what I'm saying.
Literally 99% of FM's are not high level power brokers or are participants in any of the side degrees.
The other 1% I cannot say, but I certainly have my doubts based on a lot of information I see out there.
That sounds like an organisation that has been infiltrated at the top levels and the lower levels are used as a way to deflect attention.
The trouble is, hard evidence is actually quite hard to come by. I've looked. I've also read Albert Pike's book, which is probably the hardest evidence I have - but it isn't exactly corroborated material. For example, I would expect that to reach 33rd degree as part of those side-groups (i.e. not the main body of FM) you would probably have to be selected by people who are also evil arseholes - hence the people they would pick are either
a)already compromised or
b) open to being compromised.
So which one was Albert Pike? If he was compromised, how can we trust what he says is 100% truth?
For context, I've met lots of people in FM from all walks of life, from plumbers, gamekeepers, accountants, techies, farmers, businessmen, policemen, shopkeepers, postmasters etc. etc. If I were to befriend some of them and create my own little 'club' for nefarious ends - would that be Freemasonry - or would that be me violating everything I hold dear in life for personal gain? (i.e. personal responsibility).
Ok, I read through that link and there are some glaring inconsistencies in the conclusions.
If, as claimed, that the 33rd degree FM's believe Lucifer to be a 'good' God, the light-bringer etc. etc. - then how does that square with them being evil or performing evil acts?
I mean, Satanists believe in sacrifice, that's hardly listed in the'good' column of life's ledger is it?
I didn't really start looking at FM symbolism until after I had been studying alchemy for over 20 years - so much of what I see appears to be crude attempts at conveying esoteric knowledge.
I say crude because they clearly don't work - I could probably list on one hand the number of FM's in the UK that understand the links between FM and Alchemy.
The whole text, viewed as piece, also seems to suggest that the third eye is linked to being evil and worshiping an evil god - I don't hold with this view at all.
I have read numerous different religious texts, but I find my own way and make my own interpretations - even if I end up deciding "there's something to this, but I don't yet know enough to make my mind up as to exactly what it means."
It was this personal approach to understanding the world around me (basically I was a Gnostic before I knew what it even was) that actually led me to Jesus.
That doesn't come across as evil to me. Perhaps it's like a knife - something that could be used for good or ill, depending on the wielder.
Just because Albert Pike believed 'God' to be one and the same as 'Lucifer' doesn't mean he was right. That others might agree with his point of view and could be a source of issue - that I will have to concede.
From his text it sounds like they didn't reveal this 'secret' until someone reached 30th degree (which isn't FM btw - side degrees are basically invite only clubs that are only open to FM's - they're not FM itself) which makes it sound like he was tricking them, because it would be pretty hard to go through all of FM and not realise you were worshipping evil. Sounds like a bait and switch to me.
Thank you.
I will admit that I don't know what happens in the side degrees, but FM proper is basically grown ups playing panto and collecting for charity (including their own).
That's certainly not what I'm saying.
Literally 99% of FM's are not high level power brokers or are participants in any of the side degrees.
The other 1% I cannot say, but I certainly have my doubts based on a lot of information I see out there.
That sounds like an organisation that has been infiltrated at the top levels and the lower levels are used as a way to deflect attention.
The trouble is, hard evidence is actually quite hard to come by. I've looked. I've also read Albert Pike's book, which is probably the hardest evidence I have - but it isn't exactly corroborated material. For example, I would expect that to reach 33rd degree as part of those side-groups (i.e. not the main body of FM) you would probably have to be selected by people who are also evil arseholes - hence the people they would pick are either
a)already compromised or
b) open to being compromised.
So which one was Albert Pike? If he was compromised, how can we trust what he says is 100% truth?
For context, I've met lots of people in FM from all walks of life, from plumbers, gamekeepers, accountants, techies, farmers, businessmen, policemen, shopkeepers, postmasters etc. etc. If I were to befriend some of them and create my own little 'club' for nefarious ends - would that be Freemasonry - or would that be me violating everything I hold dear in life for personal gain? (i.e. personal responsibility).
Thanks, I'll take a look.
Ok, I read through that link and there are some glaring inconsistencies in the conclusions.
If, as claimed, that the 33rd degree FM's believe Lucifer to be a 'good' God, the light-bringer etc. etc. - then how does that square with them being evil or performing evil acts?
I mean, Satanists believe in sacrifice, that's hardly listed in the'good' column of life's ledger is it?
I didn't really start looking at FM symbolism until after I had been studying alchemy for over 20 years - so much of what I see appears to be crude attempts at conveying esoteric knowledge.
I say crude because they clearly don't work - I could probably list on one hand the number of FM's in the UK that understand the links between FM and Alchemy.
The whole text, viewed as piece, also seems to suggest that the third eye is linked to being evil and worshiping an evil god - I don't hold with this view at all.
I have read numerous different religious texts, but I find my own way and make my own interpretations - even if I end up deciding "there's something to this, but I don't yet know enough to make my mind up as to exactly what it means."
It was this personal approach to understanding the world around me (basically I was a Gnostic before I knew what it even was) that actually led me to Jesus.
That doesn't come across as evil to me. Perhaps it's like a knife - something that could be used for good or ill, depending on the wielder.
Just because Albert Pike believed 'God' to be one and the same as 'Lucifer' doesn't mean he was right. That others might agree with his point of view and could be a source of issue - that I will have to concede.
From his text it sounds like they didn't reveal this 'secret' until someone reached 30th degree (which isn't FM btw - side degrees are basically invite only clubs that are only open to FM's - they're not FM itself) which makes it sound like he was tricking them, because it would be pretty hard to go through all of FM and not realise you were worshipping evil. Sounds like a bait and switch to me.