What is this thread all about?
Just a place for general discussion. A place to unload whats on your mind and talk about anything - personal, health, help needed, achievements, daily highs and daily lows, theories, predictions and what have you.
Does not need to be Q related.
I am not too sure of your idea that if we don't love ourselves then how can anyone love us? (if thats what you are saying)
People can love us despite who we are.
Hmmmm. No, that's not what I was attempting to say, and that theme of loving ourselves is not really a big theme in my mind. In fact, the idea of "loving myself" has often been exploited and co-opted by narcissistic tendencies.
If I can simplify what I'm saying, its that historically, and currently, we have been broken people. That brokenness actually began at the point in history that scripture points to, and it has been inherited and amplified down through subsequent history.
The brokenness manifests in how we see ourselves and how we see each other. The cause is a separation from God. Separated from God in our hearts, we become unable to see as God sees, and unable to love as God loves.
The solution begins with first reconnecting with God, and by building a relationship with God, restoring our capacity to see as God sees, and love as God loves.
God sees the truth of who we are, and who others are. However, in our society, we are born to parents in families that are still separated from God on some level, and so we learn to see ourselves not as he sees us, and we cannot therefore love ourselves or anyone else, as God does.
We don't really need to make an effort to love ourselves. What we really need to discover is HOW God loves us. How God sees us. Once we begin to see ourselves as he sees us, then our hearts can begin to heal, and love will flow automatically.
If we love ourselves but NOT from God's viewpoint, that's narcissism. But if we learn to see as God sees, we love ourselves, not from our own selfish perspective, but as he does, and in that, we move across the barrier of brokenness, and our capacity to love - others, as well as ourselves, begins to be restored.
Likewise, if others love us but NOT from God's perspective, then that love is on some level dysfunctional.
Learning to see ourselves and others as God does is the key starting point. From an energetic level, you could say that this allows us to resonate with God's love.
I'm not really talking about what happens if we don't do X. I'm talking about what the situation is, the causes, and how it can be improved or resolved.
hope that helps.
No, the idea is that if we dont love ourselves, we are broken and we will break others around us. Its got nothing to do with being loved by others.
Very simplistic examples:
Parent who doesn't love themselves will push their kids to achieve what they perceive they should have achieved, in the process teaching those kids that they are not lovable as they are.
Person who does not love themselves seeks extreme validation from their spouse creating a toxic relationship.
Most narcissistic / co-dependant toxic relationships are the direct result of people not being able to love themselves as they are.
I am not to keen on who I am but I am not broken or even fractured, as you say, its just an idea. As for breaking others around us if we don't love ourselves, not true.
They might try to mend you out of love for you and quite possibly succeed. Why do you discount other peoples love? It not an abstract intellectual exercise or idea, it is real.
Yes no where in the Bible does it tell us to love ourselves. I found that very interesting when I learned it when I was being discipled by some very close friends of mine.
However it does say to let the Lord your God, and to love your neighbor. I cannot think of one scripture where it says to love yourself. Very intriguing.
However from a psychological perspective, I do believe that excepting who you are in Christ, plays a huge part in how others perceive us, and what type of energy were putting out there.
But 58 I’m finally getting it. But it’s taking me a lifetime. My only wish is that I would have surrender to God sooner. I could’ve avoided so much misery.
I wrote the above without direct references to scripture in order to offer a broader perspective that speaks in less dogmatic terms. However, I believe everything I've written is borne out by scripture.
In regards to your comment, a very noteworthy point - You remembered, but not completely:
e.g Mark 12:30-31
So, there you have it. If you do not love yourself, can you love your neighbor as yourself? Obviously not.
How to love God? With all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
How to love your neighbor? As yourself.
Now, you can interpret this in a number of ways, all valid (imo).
Firstly, you must love yourself and then likewise love your neighbor in the same way.
Secondly, you can love your neighbor AS IF that neighbor is in fact you.
In other words, look at your neighbor (friend, colleague, random person in the street, any person) and see; "Gee. There goes me!" And then love that person. In doing so, you'll be loving yourself!
But either way, the scripture is to "love your neighbor as yourself". You cannot simply delete the "as yourself" part because you don't like it!!! I think the clear implication is "as (you love) yourself".
Read what I wrote again. Think about this point: We have been taught or learned all manner of untruths since we were born. Some, because those around us knew no better. Some, because our society is flooded with such untruths. But the real truth is this: that there is a true us inside, a true me that is a reflection of, and an expression of, God's own love.
Anyway, here are a few more to ponder:
Proverbs 19:8 Whoever gets sense loves his own soul; he who keeps understanding will discover good.
1 Corinthians 16:14 Let all that you do be done in love.
(so, should you think of yourself or deal with yourself or treat yourself WITHOUT love? If so, you'd be contradicting this exhortation from Paul.)
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
(So, again, how do you see yourself, treat yourself, value yourself? Surely, it must be with love.)
But I think it MUST be emphasized: there are two types of love. God's love (original love) and fallen, corrupted love. Love separated from God is not love, but decadence. Therefore, in loving oneself, just as in loving others, or loving creation, or loving God even, the key point is to learn to SEE with God's eyes and God's heart, from God's perspective. Loving oneself but not from God's perspective leads to narcissism and corruption. Just like 'loving' others, but not from God's perspective, leads to the same.
"Oh, darling, please abandon your husband, your family everything, because I love you!!!!" ~ What a lie. That's NOT love. It's something else.
Very well written! Thank you for the scriptures and your thoughtful reply.
Thanks for your response!