When it comes to the end-times sequence of events… we are in that split-second-moment where the walls of a drag racer’s tires ripple because the sheer power of the engine is too much too fast. Any moment now the rubber’s going to grip the road and we’ll be at ludicrous speed.
REPENT, PRAY, LOVE YOUR FAMILIES and point others toward Jesus Christ. God Bless.
"Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8
"The great day of the Lord is near— near and coming quickly. The cry on the day of the Lord is bitter; the Mighty Warrior shouts his battle cry." Zephaniah 1:14
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. " Revelation 1:7
The story of the men watching Jesus physically ascend is not half literal and half allegory. Either the whole thing is allegory or it was all a real event. You do understand that at least?
Er, careful. Your prejudice is showing!
No, I agree that it is not half literal and half allegory. It's an important point, and thank you for making it.
Some of the content in scripture IS allegory, some is Symbolic and metaphor.
The tricky thing is that spiritual realities are OFTEN expressed - and experienced - through symbols and metaphor.
I believe the event itself was a real event, but what was observed was a spiritual realization, not a material event.
As such, it is not allegorical. In my view, the men actually stood there, they had a spiritual vision that they accepted and perhaps even perceived as a material event, and which then the author recorded without any distinction between spiritual and material phenomena.
It's not allegorical in the sense that its a parable. However, Jesus rising up into the sky is how the spiritual reality of his ascension to the highest realm together with the Father manifested and appeared to the observers, who were observing with their spiritual eyes, as in a vision, not viewing a material reality.
I hope that clarifies the point.
Just another point: You wrote: "men watching Jesus physically ascend".
Do you recognize that this is YOUR interpretation and (in fact) your own insertion, based on your interpretation and understanding? That's important to recognize, in my view. It does not serve God well for us to assert our own interpretation and understanding as if it is fact. It's important to recognize that any time we engage with scripture, we are dealing with ONE what scripture itself says, and TWO, what we THINK scripture means.
It does not say in scripture that he physically ascended. It lays out a description of what the men saw and reported, but does NOT overtly state this was a physical phenomenon. They saw Jesus form rising, but was this a vision? Or did Jesus actually float up behind clouds? If so, then where did he go after that?
Many reading this throughout history have simply assumed it must be a material phenomenon because they did not understand the relationship between spirit and flesh. A clearer understanding of the relationship between spirit and flesh is, in my opinion, part of what Paul was referring to when he wrote:
We constantly live in both realms, but due to the effects of sin, our spiritual senses are greatly, greatly diminished, almost to the point where most people do not even know that they have spiritual senses. When we die, our spirit is separated from our flesh, and our flesh decays, its job having been done. our spirit is eternal, and lives on in the spirit world eternally. But whether we live in eternal hell, or eternal heaven, this depends on our relationship with God and Christ.
Another point here: If you read Acts, it talks about how MANY saints were 'raised from the tombs' after the resurrection of Jesus. But if so, then where are they now? How long did they last?
The much more logical and consistent explanation is that following Jesus resurrection and the advent of the holy spirit, the spiritual sense of many believers and people in jerusalem were temporarily open and they observed the spirits of the saints who had previous passed to the spirit world. 'Rising from the tombs' is a metaphor that explains that because of Jesus resurrection, the spirit of these saints of the old Testament were resurrection to a new level, aka paradise, whereas the spiritual realm of even good people who died prior to the coming of Jesus is linked to a 'tomb' - spiritual dark and dank.
"You do understand that at least?" Yeah, sorry about that. I was being an ass, and it was unnecessary. I should have simply said, "Can we agree on that point?" I interpret the story as literal, and that's okay. You interpret it as a possible vision being described. That is also okay. The details of this and most other things argued over are unimportant. The gospel is simple or else simpletons like me would be in trouble eh? I thank God for that.
Hahahahha.
Thanks for the reply, Otherwise.
Yes, We can agree on that point. At the end of the day, for me, it's all about heart connection and relationship with Christ. All else flows from that.
I enjoyed this discussion, although I'm the one who went on and on and on... (bleh!).
Thank you for a courteous and generous response. A blessing on all us simpletons! Praise God.
(*PS. If you feel the urge, please DO check out about Elijah. While I agree that the gospel is simple, there are amazing hidden gems to be found when you dig. This one is gold platinum.)
Ps. Did you bother to look up about how Elijah ascended and how he returned? It's really very important, although traditional theology (seeing in a mirror dimly) has failed to even look at this point, even though it is there in plain sight.