To fight off sickness you need a strong body and a sound mind. I think Christian's need to focus on the getting ride of the darkness from the body of Christ first. Then these fights will become clear and Christ will lead. Yes absolutely vote against these things but let's not make it our lives mission or say we have moral ground to di this this and this. If we learn to truly reflect Christz light then we can then light up the world. However not until we learn to carry that light within as an individual person and collective body of Christ. It's like we are carrying this moral high ground while at the same time living in darkness. So my thought is first we focus on Christian's. Find out how to bring larger portions to one mind in the love and light of Christ
I hear what you're saying - but why can't it be both?
I agree with what you're saying - that we as the Church have a lot we need to get right ourselves.
But what I disagree with - and correct me if I'm wrong - is what seems to be the message here that we should not get involved with voting in line with the Bible until we as a Church are good and clear?
Am I missing something?
I think you would agree that we as Christians will never be perfect - that's the whole point of why we need Jesus to begin with, lol...
So when do we decide we're clean enough to get involved in voting for and proposing laws that reflect what the Bible tells us we should be doing?
I specifically said go ahead and vote. Voting is important. However laws dont prevent evil. Only forces it to act in a more sly manner. God gave us 1 law in the garden. Dont eat from there. Yet we still fell. The solution is to bring people back to Christ. To remove 0ur own planks so we can then help others. Get our own houses in order. Anything else is a band aid
Absolutely agree! But - even though it's just a band aid - and even though it may be the minority - we still have to try for such things.
"The solution is to bring people back to Christ"
Absolutely! Consider this. If we are all predisposed to sin - should we not do things that make it more difficult for us to do so?
We would say we shouldn't put alcohol in front of the alcoholic trying to recover.
Should we also then attempt to not put stumbling blocks in front of our fellow humans that make it easy to slip into un Biblical lifestyles?
I know the choice is with the individual in the end - like you said, "laws dont prevent evil. Only forces it to act in a more sly manner."
Just like the alcoholic could go out when you're asleep and get a drink.
But if we just put the bottle in front of the alcoholic - could we say we care about them?
Point is - I agree with you. The battle is not on one side of the fence or the other - and it does start on one side of the fence for sure. But it's our responsibility to be caretakers for the other.
I re-read what you said - and I do agree with you that this nation will never turn around if the body of Christ does not take care of the apostasy that has taken hold over it.
I hear what you're saying - but I ask you this.
Where do we draw the line of moral values to put into law?
Who decides where that line is?
Someone decides that line.
Every law has a moral value behind it.
Since we decide which moral values are made into Laws, by whom we vote for (in theory, lol)...
Then it is up to the majority of the people to determine the moral values that are made into laws.
For example - do you know it's been voted on in the 2022 election in California that it will be LEGAL to kill a baby on the day it's born?
How do you feel about that?
Should we, as Christians, not get in the way of that law?
Where do you draw the line? We're the ones who decide on where the line is.
Where do we draw it?
God shows us where - and leaves it up to Us to decide on if we will do it or not.
That is the reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.
To fight off sickness you need a strong body and a sound mind. I think Christian's need to focus on the getting ride of the darkness from the body of Christ first. Then these fights will become clear and Christ will lead. Yes absolutely vote against these things but let's not make it our lives mission or say we have moral ground to di this this and this. If we learn to truly reflect Christz light then we can then light up the world. However not until we learn to carry that light within as an individual person and collective body of Christ. It's like we are carrying this moral high ground while at the same time living in darkness. So my thought is first we focus on Christian's. Find out how to bring larger portions to one mind in the love and light of Christ
I hear what you're saying - but why can't it be both?
I agree with what you're saying - that we as the Church have a lot we need to get right ourselves.
But what I disagree with - and correct me if I'm wrong - is what seems to be the message here that we should not get involved with voting in line with the Bible until we as a Church are good and clear?
Am I missing something?
I think you would agree that we as Christians will never be perfect - that's the whole point of why we need Jesus to begin with, lol...
So when do we decide we're clean enough to get involved in voting for and proposing laws that reflect what the Bible tells us we should be doing?
I specifically said go ahead and vote. Voting is important. However laws dont prevent evil. Only forces it to act in a more sly manner. God gave us 1 law in the garden. Dont eat from there. Yet we still fell. The solution is to bring people back to Christ. To remove 0ur own planks so we can then help others. Get our own houses in order. Anything else is a band aid
"laws dont prevent evil"
Absolutely agree! But - even though it's just a band aid - and even though it may be the minority - we still have to try for such things.
"The solution is to bring people back to Christ"
Absolutely! Consider this. If we are all predisposed to sin - should we not do things that make it more difficult for us to do so?
We would say we shouldn't put alcohol in front of the alcoholic trying to recover.
Should we also then attempt to not put stumbling blocks in front of our fellow humans that make it easy to slip into un Biblical lifestyles?
I know the choice is with the individual in the end - like you said, "laws dont prevent evil. Only forces it to act in a more sly manner."
Just like the alcoholic could go out when you're asleep and get a drink.
But if we just put the bottle in front of the alcoholic - could we say we care about them?
Point is - I agree with you. The battle is not on one side of the fence or the other - and it does start on one side of the fence for sure. But it's our responsibility to be caretakers for the other.
I appreciate the conversation.
I re-read what you said - and I do agree with you that this nation will never turn around if the body of Christ does not take care of the apostasy that has taken hold over it.
I'm sorry I'm probably worded things really horrible
All good!