That's God's job. In this realm, there will be consequences for those that coordinated these narratives (acts of war) if I have anything to do with it.
Matthew 18: 21-22 21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Correct, agreed. Administration of temporal justice, duties which some of us are chosen by God to exercise in this world, is different from vengeance, which belongs to God only.
...You have to ask to receive forgiveness... I am down with God providing forgiveness. I am also ready to forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness and repents. I also believe you can receive forgiveness and still endure the consequences of your actions.
Or rather, receiving forgiveness - something accomplished by the forgiven - is separate from giving forgiveness. Two separate things, and they should not be confused.
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".
God forgives us daily, constantly. HOWEVER, whether we receive that forgiveness, and grow or become better accordingly, well, that's another matter. In my opinion.
I think you're confusing the responsibility of one (forgiven) with the other (*forgiver). They are two separate things.
Learning to silently forgive others is part of learning the heart of God. If you always insist on someone who transgresses asking for YOUR forgiveness, my goodness.... I don't relish that way of living.
I agree however, that forgiveness and accountability are not mutually exclusive.
I have a family member who has repeatedly stolen from me, tried to destroy my reputation, and uses me. I finally cut ties with him after the death of my father. He cries on FB that I am not a christian because I do not forgive.
I want to love like Jesus, but I don't know how to here. I have tried forgiving, but not interacting until he asks for forgiveness.
With apologies for my long diatribe (although sincerely offered), here's also a practical step with regards to the family member:
Clearly tell him this (i.e. via facebook, in a public place where he cries about your not being Christian, etc)
"I have forgiven you, and I will continue to forgive you, but your actions and behavior have caused me a lot of anguish and hurt. Until you recognize that, and change your behavior, we cannot be connected. The ball is in your court."
Something like that?
If you can. But the most important thing is your connecting with God and finding cleansing and relief from the pain in your own heart by learning how to forgive (forgive means "letting go").
My heart goes out to you. Betrayal is all the worse when it's someone close to you, like a family member. And stealing, slander and abuse are all forms of betrayal.
If you will allow me some (unsolicited) suggestions:
Forgiveness does not mean subjecting yourself to continual abuse, and cutting off can be a critical part of the healing process. Based on even the scant amount you have shared, it sounds justified and probably the best move.
If this family member is accusing your of "not being Christian", does he consider himself a Christian? Because if he doesn't, then how on earth would he know what it means to be Christian. And if he does, then is he really practicing Christian repentance?
But that's beside the point. If the man is not repentant of his ways, then cutting off seems like the right thing to do FOR HIM, as much as for you.
The challenge here I think would be to try to find the way to communicate to him what hurt and harm he is doing to you, if there is any possibility of him NOT really understanding that point. Is he oblivious to the hurt he is inflicting on you? Or is he simply delinquent and unable and unwilling to change?
I would suggest in prayer asking Jesus what if felt like for him when he was betrayed, by his family, by his brothers, by his people, by disciples who turned away and even those who slept at the time of his greatest anguish. To love like Jesus, we need to experience Jesus' heart. If you prayer on this point with determination and sincerity, Jesus can and will, I believe, grace you with experiences of his heart.
When you experience his heart as your own, then not only will you come to understand his capacity to love as well as forgive, but you will likely also find some healing or comfort with regards to the pain and anguish this family member has caused (is causing) you.
To love like Jesus means we have to love Jesus, and loving Jesus involves directly asking him (and begging him when necessary) to share his heart with us, his own feelings. The response may come in the form of a dream, or a realization, or just a feeling that gradually creeps over you or strikes you one day, but it will come.
I firmly believe this is the best way to learn how to love and how to forgive. However, in the meantime, I would also ask God for forgiveness if you still feel pain and resentment in your heart, which is very likely what prevents a sense of forgiveness towards this family member.
But this point is key: learning the heart to forgive is what you do to reconcile yourself with your Heavenly Father. It means letting go of the pain and resentment, the hurt that you have experienced.
And that is something very, very different from allowing someone such as this family member to continue to abuse you (and abuse himself) by this behavior, and/or making things easier for him or ignoring his wrongdoing. They are two separate things.
It may be that even if (when?), unless you have already fully experienced it, you truly experience a sense of forgiveness towards him that you still do not have contact with him. Your forgiveness of him is not contingent upon HIS choice, but on YOUR choice. So you can forgive him but also put in place a boundary and a separation that might well be necessary for both his healing (repentance) and yours.
I hope the distinction here is clear. To me it seems clear. Boundaries protect. But forgiveness is something that happens in YOUR heart, regardless of whether he can receive it or not. And the key to forgiveness is being able to experience and understand, in substance, both Jesus own heart and feelings, and the Father's.
A prayer for your continued Journey. His grace be upon you, ever stronger.
That's God's job. In this realm, there will be consequences for those that coordinated these narratives (acts of war) if I have anything to do with it.
Matthew 18: 21-22 21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Correct, agreed. Administration of temporal justice, duties which some of us are chosen by God to exercise in this world, is different from vengeance, which belongs to God only.
Matthew 23:12
...You have to ask to receive forgiveness... I am down with God providing forgiveness. I am also ready to forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness and repents. I also believe you can receive forgiveness and still endure the consequences of your actions.
God can do anything he wants without asking me :)
Very good point! Even Moses paid dearly. Bith strong men of God. If they pay... who are we to dodge our payments?
Yah, that's simply not true.
Or rather, receiving forgiveness - something accomplished by the forgiven - is separate from giving forgiveness. Two separate things, and they should not be confused.
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".
God forgives us daily, constantly. HOWEVER, whether we receive that forgiveness, and grow or become better accordingly, well, that's another matter. In my opinion.
I think you're confusing the responsibility of one (forgiven) with the other (*forgiver). They are two separate things.
Learning to silently forgive others is part of learning the heart of God. If you always insist on someone who transgresses asking for YOUR forgiveness, my goodness.... I don't relish that way of living.
I agree however, that forgiveness and accountability are not mutually exclusive.
I have a family member who has repeatedly stolen from me, tried to destroy my reputation, and uses me. I finally cut ties with him after the death of my father. He cries on FB that I am not a christian because I do not forgive.
I want to love like Jesus, but I don't know how to here. I have tried forgiving, but not interacting until he asks for forgiveness.
With apologies for my long diatribe (although sincerely offered), here's also a practical step with regards to the family member:
Clearly tell him this (i.e. via facebook, in a public place where he cries about your not being Christian, etc)
"I have forgiven you, and I will continue to forgive you, but your actions and behavior have caused me a lot of anguish and hurt. Until you recognize that, and change your behavior, we cannot be connected. The ball is in your court."
Something like that?
If you can. But the most important thing is your connecting with God and finding cleansing and relief from the pain in your own heart by learning how to forgive (forgive means "letting go").
My heart goes out to you. Betrayal is all the worse when it's someone close to you, like a family member. And stealing, slander and abuse are all forms of betrayal.
If you will allow me some (unsolicited) suggestions:
Forgiveness does not mean subjecting yourself to continual abuse, and cutting off can be a critical part of the healing process. Based on even the scant amount you have shared, it sounds justified and probably the best move.
If this family member is accusing your of "not being Christian", does he consider himself a Christian? Because if he doesn't, then how on earth would he know what it means to be Christian. And if he does, then is he really practicing Christian repentance?
But that's beside the point. If the man is not repentant of his ways, then cutting off seems like the right thing to do FOR HIM, as much as for you.
The challenge here I think would be to try to find the way to communicate to him what hurt and harm he is doing to you, if there is any possibility of him NOT really understanding that point. Is he oblivious to the hurt he is inflicting on you? Or is he simply delinquent and unable and unwilling to change?
I would suggest in prayer asking Jesus what if felt like for him when he was betrayed, by his family, by his brothers, by his people, by disciples who turned away and even those who slept at the time of his greatest anguish. To love like Jesus, we need to experience Jesus' heart. If you prayer on this point with determination and sincerity, Jesus can and will, I believe, grace you with experiences of his heart.
When you experience his heart as your own, then not only will you come to understand his capacity to love as well as forgive, but you will likely also find some healing or comfort with regards to the pain and anguish this family member has caused (is causing) you.
To love like Jesus means we have to love Jesus, and loving Jesus involves directly asking him (and begging him when necessary) to share his heart with us, his own feelings. The response may come in the form of a dream, or a realization, or just a feeling that gradually creeps over you or strikes you one day, but it will come.
I firmly believe this is the best way to learn how to love and how to forgive. However, in the meantime, I would also ask God for forgiveness if you still feel pain and resentment in your heart, which is very likely what prevents a sense of forgiveness towards this family member.
But this point is key: learning the heart to forgive is what you do to reconcile yourself with your Heavenly Father. It means letting go of the pain and resentment, the hurt that you have experienced.
And that is something very, very different from allowing someone such as this family member to continue to abuse you (and abuse himself) by this behavior, and/or making things easier for him or ignoring his wrongdoing. They are two separate things.
It may be that even if (when?), unless you have already fully experienced it, you truly experience a sense of forgiveness towards him that you still do not have contact with him. Your forgiveness of him is not contingent upon HIS choice, but on YOUR choice. So you can forgive him but also put in place a boundary and a separation that might well be necessary for both his healing (repentance) and yours.
I hope the distinction here is clear. To me it seems clear. Boundaries protect. But forgiveness is something that happens in YOUR heart, regardless of whether he can receive it or not. And the key to forgiveness is being able to experience and understand, in substance, both Jesus own heart and feelings, and the Father's.
A prayer for your continued Journey. His grace be upon you, ever stronger.