I'll probably be crapped on by some, but that's fine. This is an emotional thing so I get that some people are having a hard time staying calm when they're worried about themselves and their families.
Thankfully I live in an area that is basically geographically protected from all this, so the only thing I had to worry about was the wind, which is why I've been monitoring cloud and wind patterns obsessively the past few weeks. But that threat has long since passed (I'll get to that later). So since I can provide a moderately objective view on things, I decided to put my autism into overdrive and put in some extra effort. Mainly since I'm annoyed by everyone on here, truth social, twitter, etc. spreading these doomsday prophecies about the event.
Now let me preface with this. THIS WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO SWING FROM A ROPE FOR IT. But it's not as bad as is being made out. It's bad, but not a doomsday scenario.
So let's start with the very first thing no one seems to understand. IT IS THE OHIO RIVER AND THE OHIO RIVER ALONE THAT IS CONTAMINATED.
All these maps you see on social media and on here, are water basin maps. That covered area (except for the Ohio River itself), is almost entirely tributaries. Tributaries are inside of drainage basins. Meaning they FEED INTO the river, and are safe from contamination from the Ohio River because it's impossible for the chemicals to flow back upstream due to gravity.
Case in point, this map:
https://files.catbox.moe/1k4obt.jpg
I drew over the river and tributaries brighter colors so you can more easily see them. But that map puts my first point into perspective. Literally 95% of the area everyone keeps saying holds 10% of the US population, or 74 Million People, or "the most fertile farmland in the country" is part of the tributary system and doesn't get water directly from the Ohio River itself.
So there's one point made. Let's get to point two. The Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River.
The Appalachians basically act as a giant barrier for this entire disaster. Case in point, this Map:
https://files.catbox.moe/jdq9nc.jpg
As we all know, water flows to lower elevations. Ergo this fear that everything is going to somehow spread beyond the Ohio River are looking at this wrong. It can't spread east very far since the Appalachian Mountains make that impossible. Instead we should worry more about what'll happen when it finally feeds into the Mississippi river. Because that's where this is heading.
Her's a map:
https://files.catbox.moe/8i4tfr.png
So as you can see, the Ohio River will eventually feed into the Mississippi. Which is where the real worry should be, but literally no one has mentioned this yet. Right now, the catastrophic damage is basically contained to East Palestine, with moderate damage being done to communities right on the the edge of the Ohio River in Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia. But once it hits the Mississippi then it starts hitting Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Mississippi before finally being dumped into the gulf.
So if we can contain it before it hits the Mississippi then we can minimize the damage, which brings me into my next map and point. Dams:
https://files.catbox.moe/wkla5w.jpg
There are no less than 16 different dams we can use to at least slow down and control the spread of this along the Ohio river, upstream from East Palestine. So all is not lost yet, in that regards, but the fact this hasn't even been entertained yet shows that these evil pieces of crap are trying to make this worse than it has to be.
Finally, the groundwater, farmland, and rain. I know that outside of those immediately in harms way, this is everyone's biggest concern. So I present you with 2 maps, 2 scientific studies, a weather radar, and a distance calculator:
https://files.catbox.moe/05x3hr.jpg
https://files.catbox.moe/gpzo05.jpg
https://open.maricopa.edu/physicalgeology/chapter/14-2-groundwater-flow/
https://wellwater.oregonstate.edu/groundwater/understanding-groundwater/groundwater-movement
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/national/wind-flow
Alright, now with all that available, let's discuss everyone's biggest concerns. The Ohio river runs across the southern border of Ohio, and more or less forms the border with West Virginia and Kentucky. Now at first it may seem like the elevation of ground water reservoirs in Ohio leads credence to the theory that Ohio groundwater is screwed, but that's not the case for multiple reasons.
First of all, notice how there seems to be deeper groundwater table on the southern and eastern part of the state where the Ohio River and more importantly, east palestine are. This is a good thing, as it means that to contaminate the ground water in the rest of the state outside of the immediate disaster area, it'd have to flow upwards, which again, the law of gravity prevents from happening.
And even if the water DOES somehow travel upwards, the scientific studies I provided both point out that it takes, years, sometimes decades or centuries, for groundwater to naturally travel more than a few miles. So the majority of the state is safe in the short-medium term. And hopefully we can clean this mess up completely before it even becomes a factor for most of the state.
Now let's look at the second map. The prime farmland map from Ohio Department of Agriculture. I admit, it's an older map, but I had a hard time finding one up to date, and it still proves my point regardless.
All the prime farmland in Ohio is near the great lakes in the north and northeast portion of the state. There is SOME farmland that will probably be affected by this, but overall, the Cornbelt is safe since it's both geographically separated, and the ground water contamination is far enough away from the disaster area and river that contamination would take literal decades or centuries from the groundwater, if it's even possible, which I don't believe it is.
Finally, the weather radar and distance calculator. The doom cloud is everyone's next biggest concern, and I can safely say, it's already floating over the Atlantic and has probably been dispersed over the ocean. Clouds travel anywhere from 30-100 miles per hour in a straight line depending on the type of cloud, and the furthest land point the doom cloud would have effected based on wind patterns was DC.
DC is roughly 370 Miles from East Palestine, so at the lowest possible travel speed it would have taken 13 days to reach the atlantic. The derailment occured 14 days ago today. And keep in mind, this is at THE LOWEST POSSIBLE SPEED. It's entirely possible that the cloud traveled faster and ended up in the atlantic earlier.
Likewise, I've been monitoring rain patterns over the areas that the doom cloud would have traveled over, and from what I can tell, there was almost no rainfall on land, outside of a few small storms in Pennsylvania. And it's debatable whether they were even doom cloud rain or not, since I have no means of confirming or denying it.
But regardless, the amount of rainfall in the doom cloud path, was negligible, and if it WAS doom cloud rain, the amount that fell was so insignificant that it's debatable if it would have a long term effect on the local land and wildlife. Keep in mind, these same chemicals were spilled in New Jersey in smaller amounts, and the long term effects were basically non-existent.
So in conclusion, yes this is bad. Yes it's horrible people are suffering. It will probably effect a few 100K people. But this is NOT the apocalyptic, end of the world scenario it's being made out to be. Millions of people are not going to die from chemical poisoning. The second largest break basket in the United States is not now barren land. And half the groundwater in the Eastern US is not now unsafe.
Also, as a sidenote, I'm sorry for using Maricopa University and University of Oregon studies as a reference, but I it's all I could find on short notice, and I have other things I have to do IRL. I just didn't want to start making claims without anything to back it up.
EDIT: I found a few NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) Maps from February 7th and 8th that show the Doom cloud and it's trajectory, that further support my point on the doom cloud. Though I will admit, it spread further north than what I was expecting when I was tracking it. All the way into Maine and Canada. So there may have been more rain from it than I originally estimated. It's something for fellow pedes to look into. Though I still don't think that it would be enough to hurt anything long term even if it did rain since it would have been heavily diluted at that point.
If anything, this just means we should be more concerned about about the North East than the South East, since it's more likely they will be effected medium to long term than the Ohio and Mississippi river basin.
You are laying deaths and maiming on me when nothing like that has been reported---which really makes it an imaginary accusation. But you are good with it.
I am saying there is no confidence on ANY side until there is measurement of the levels in air and water. That means you don't get to accuse anyone of murder until there is a corpus delecti.
This is an accident, not a public policy, so there are no parallels to the "vaccine."
Was there a crime? Name it. And what was "covered up" when essentially everything that happened has been in public notice? Who is "they"? You are hyperventilating.
From what I have seen, I would put a finger on the railroad company, because they were responsible for the Michigan derailment, too. Poor track maintenance leads to derailments, and video clips and photos have now surfaced of the dreadful condition of the rail lines in Ohio. Interesting problem if this arose from the bad economic environment of the Covid lockdowns---and possibly the requirement to operate because it was an "essential service." Don't run the trains and don't get any food to large cities. So, you decide to take dangerous cargoes because you can't afford to be picky, running next to red. I don't know that this was the case, but it seems quite plausible to me.
Have you had to breathe sulfur dioxide growing up in a small city? Have you had to breathe ammonia leaking from a canning plant's refrigeration system? Have you had to enter a work environment fill of tolulene vapor? Don't lecture me on the undesirability of breathing toxic chemicals. I've been there and done that.
1, not hyperventilating. Also people ARE reporting illnesses so your just wrong
2, Wow just a string of strawman arguments that I never made fucking pathetic,
media black out for 2 weeks before this hit mainstream news followed by basically “nothing to see here” and the government hangs these people out to dry with out is a literal cover up, not to mention Reporters have been arrested for trying to report it when the event occurred
And it’s CONFIRMED the chemicals were converted into carcinogens and then burned into the air
it’s affected the wildlife
we don’t know who will get cancer until many years later and as this very post admits that’s 100k people which is an insane amount of people you probably can’t even picture that many people lined up in your feeble mind
I didn’t blame you for anything? I simply remarked that it’s a fact they spilled the chemicals as a result of shit infrastructure and known decisions made by government at the behest of lobbyists. It is know. The rail company cut corners on safety while turning record profits this includes not haveing a proper braking system despite carrying bigger heavier loads on the same worn out tracks
blaming Covid for the infrastructure is a joke we sent 100 billion to Ukraine just last year and today they won’t send any aid to our own country
so what if you’ve experienced contaminated environment? That's would mean you should be understanding of how these people must feel and how they've been hung out to dry and here you are trying to downplay and make excuses for the biden admin for prioritizing another country over our own and for refusing to do anything to protect the climate the demonrats claim to care so much about
You're obviously a shill your post is loaded with strawman arguments I never made
Then let's go over your arguments here.
Dead animals (foxes and chickens) have also been reported. No surprise if phosgene was produced. It is heavier than air and hugs the ground. In one of my earlier comments I lamented that the officials did not warn the public of this problem.
A matter of opinion, but you were indeed throwing things at me, just as you are here.
Of course there is media suppression. This throws the administration in a bad light (Buttigieg). But it is not complete, and information is coming out.
The only carcinogen identified was the vinyl chloride, which was supposed to have been consumed by combustion. The combustion byproducts (phosgene and hydrogen chloride) are nasty but not carcinogenic. It is not clear whether the other cargo was involved in the breach. There is plenty of sheer ignorance abounding on the chemicals at issue and their toxicity. (Chemicals were not "converted into carcinogens and then burned." You are an example of the ignorance I am referring to.)
Back to point 1.
No, we don't know. Nor do we know if they will ever get cancer. It is time for concern, but not for panic.
You put me as standing with any culprits responsible. Don't expect me to take that in a friendly light. An accident may have multiple causes. If the journal box hadn't caught fire, the accident may not have resulted in a threat from an exploding vinyl chloride tank. If the derailment hadn't happened, the problem may still have evolved farther down the track. Was the infrastructure "shit"? We (meaning you and me), don't yet know---but I have pointed out that the rails in Ohio are apparently notorious for being barely functional. Why is that? Corporate greed? Or being forced to operate under the edict of being an "essential service" when times are tough, personnel may be hard to come by, expenses have to be curtailed, and it is difficult to turn down cargo if you need the money. You tell me how you would handle that situation---and then go run a railroad. In any case, Norfolk Southern is the responsible party.
There was no identified problem with the braking system, nor any indication that braking was a component of the accident. You are possibly feeding off the B.S. that the government is making about a safety rule that Trump had relaxed. It was a rule that, had it remained in place, would not have affected this train at all. You are jumping at shadows.
I can easily blame Covid for the many small businesses that have locally gone bankrupt, and the shortage of labor in the remaining ones. That has nothing to do with the Ukraine. That problem, by the way, was due to overweening government mandates, so I don't know why you call it an "excuse." It doesn't excuse what the government did to our economy and industry.
So what if I know what I am talking about? says the man who has had the pleasure of breathing clean air all his life. Yes, that means I do have compassion for those who are affected---but I am not so much an idiot as to imagine they are all "affected" when they may only be inconvenienced. I work in industry and it remains to be seen whether and to what degree they are affected. Hopefully, the air pollution will have diluted by now. Winds and rains will help. Ground water is a more difficult problem, but the problem is limited by the flow boundaries. It may take some tedious groundwork to stir up the stream beds and clear them out. I understand that topsoil is already being removed.
Look fren, we are both splitting hairs here, and it seems we pretty much agree on the main points.
I just felt you were down playing the severity not that you were in anyway complicit.thats the only issue I have, I am tired of letting them off the hook all the time there's never any accountability. Perhaps you disagree but this is my last response since we are debating in circles
And i feel exposing thousands of people to extremely dangerous carcinogens is equivalent to maiming and killing since cancer is often a death sentence or very destructive to the body maybe to you that seems hyperbolic but you came at me extremely hot first
I didn't say you didn't know what you're talking about just confused why, if you've lived through similar situations you're so eager to downplay the severity of the situation and the governments role in exacerbating it regardless of motive
But worry not I know your an obvious shill based I. Your activity here being dedicated to simply shilling for the company and the government so I will just keep deporting you take care fren
I'm not interested in letting anyone off the hook. But I do insist that the hook be measured and verified.
Since the whole point of the controlled burn was to AVOID the exposure of many people to tons of a carcinogen, I don't understand your position. Let the damn vinyl chloride tank blow up and allow it to evaporate and spread over the countryside? I mean, if you can explain to me what was the right thing to do IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES (i.e., no magical introduction of equipment and means to do something perfect---as well as a time machine to give you as much time as needed before the tank explodes), then I can perhaps understand your point better.
My experiences give me more compassion for what people may go through. Did you ever breathe ammonia? Or sulfur dioxide & trioxide (makes sulfurous or sulfuric acid in your lungs)? Or tolulene? My father lost some lung function through breathing cleaning chemicals that he used as a janitor. I pointed out the people in East Palestine were ill-served by not being warned of the combustion products being heavier-than-air gases. Was that something you were aware of? I doubt it. Typical that you pound your chest with virtue as giving you anything to talk about, and those that have gone through these experiences have nothing to listen to.
My confidence is bolstered by your basic admission that you don't know shit about me, and therefore probably not about anything else. I don't have ANY sympathy for the government, and I want Norfolk Southern to answer any charges they are liable for. Everybody seems to want to be lemmings, not rational human beings, ready to leap off a cliff of supposition instead of waiting and learning the true story.
Here's some additional sauce for you it's nice and normie npc shill friendly for you
It discusses the outdatedbrakes and other things including sources
Edify yourself
https://youtu.be/7IHkyjhMYuk
Okay, I watched the video. As far as I could see, Russel Brand is a bullshitting blowhard. His antics diminished the credibility of what he was talking about.
Regarding brakes, however: (1) There was no claim that the quality of the brakes was in any way related to the accident. Or that there was anything substandard about what they were. (2) The rule lifted by Trump was an action already passed by Congress in 2015. (3) Even under the rule, the train that suffered the derailment would not have fallen under its provisions.
The rest wasn't particularly "news," although some of it was. The comparison to Chernobyl was histrionic.