Sorry if I misunderstand your post because I kind of was figuring my comments were going against what you were saying, but that’s ok, I’ll admit to just being confused!
The original post, sorry, it probably wasn’t clear to me that there was an original and then a response. I admittedly didn’t read all of it because it was very long.
Jesus gave us the church....Man gave us denominations...which if you consider it, are "decentralized". The cathaholics ; ) gave use a "centralized" church. Look at the stark difference in the amount of corruption between too groups.
While I 100% agree with the message you're conveying, that we shouldn't be spiteful or judging because of doctrinal differences, this is where you get it wrong.
Part of God's plan for man's salvation is the Church. Christ spoke of building and establishing His Church multiple times in the Gospels.
Multiple times in Scripture we see Paul talking about the laying on of hands, which is the appointing of successors and Bishops, which Christ gave the Apostles authority to do. There are Church Fathers and Saints mentioned by name in the Pauline epistles, Clement of Rome and Dionysius the Areopagite, who were Bishops in the Church appointed by the Apostles.
Jesus DID establish a Church, before the Gospels were written and the Bible was compiled, there was the Orthodox Catholic Church.
The post was not mine but the reply to it was. Yes Jesus began the church. He did NOT however create denominations or separate church doctrines. He gave instructions and we are to follow them. He never said that His word or instructions had a deadline when they would no longer be valid or relevant or that these things He instructed would have an expiration date. He never said the Holy Spirit would leave them at some point after He was sent or that the things Jesus said go and do in my name would cease once the Bible was all done being written. Too many act as if they do. If that’s true then I sure want to see the scripture because I am always in the Bible and have never come across that
You’re right in that he didn’t create denominations because his way was the perfect way. As mankind, we ought to emulate Christ. How you think that ought to be done and hire I think that ought to be done may differ. Perhaps you like new music and I like traditional music. Either is ok. Perhaps you see adult baptism but not infant baptism and I see infant baptism as ok. These differences are not clearly laid out, therefore each person may have their own interpretation. To more easily find like minded people, we may group ourselves to a certain denomination, that’s ok. But many Christians deny the basics of the gospel. That’s not ok.
These differences are not clearly laid out, therefore each person may have their own interpretation. To more easily find like minded people, we may group ourselves to a certain denomination, that’s ok.
Actually it's not okay, because if anyone can make up their own interpretation, then how do you know the verses in Scripture mean what you think they mean? Where do you derive the basis for discerning what is true and untrue? If anyone can make up their own denomination, whats wrong with Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses? By what means can you say their interpretation is incorrect? And how do you know what the "basics of the Gospel" are if it's just your own interpretation? Maybe I disagree with what you think the basics are, whos to say either is right or wrong?
The answer is the Church! And of course these differences are laid out, thats why the Church has councils like the Apostles did in the Apostolic times of the Church, look to Acts 15.
I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth
The Bible is mostly black and white. So I don’t think most denominations are equivalent. Churches that are true churches must hold to the core tenets of the Christian faith. LGBT is directly spoken about in the Bible. There is no question what it says. Interpreting LGBT to be biblical is not an interpretation, it’s a twisting of the scriptures and is of the devil. Things I’ve mentioned are examples of gray areas of the scriptures. I’m not saying I’m of no opinion on these topics, I just don’t believe they are masters of salvation.
But then we have to ask, what exactly are the core tenents? There are no "core tenents" listed in Scripture, this is something left up to an individual interpretation, which again doesn't solve the issue of how do we know whos interpretation is correct.
Yes, there are parts of the Bible that are black and white, love thy neighbor, take up your Cross and follow me, etc.
There are also parts of the Bible that are very theologically difficult, such as Triadology and Christology. An incorrect interpretation of Scripture on these is a direct gateway to atheism, gnosticism, arianism, nestorianism, unitarianism, etc.
There's also no such thing as "the true Churches", Scripture says there is one Church, one Faith, one Body, not multiple.
And one last thing to ask yourself: who do you think compiled the Bible? Why, the Church did through a series of Councils.
I could easily and in long hand prove to you what I’m saying. But to keep it short and sweet, read the west minister larger and shorter catechisms, Belgic confession, cannons of dort, Heidelberg catechism, and the work of the reformers, st Augustine, RC Sproul, Thomas Aquinos, and the Bible pros associated with each. Nh alliance (multiple denominations) have a statement of faith that talks about the core tenets of the Christian faith, to include the scriptural references as well.
People from different sects agreeing doesn't change the fact that there is no exhaustive list in Scripture of "core tenents" that a Church must follow to be true.
And in the Orthodox view, we don't appeal to textual critics and scholars to discern which doctrines are correct. We have the Councils for a reason, like the one in Acts 15. The idea of leaving it to "Bible pros" and textual scholars is an idea from the reformation. It's what led to the thousands of different denominations schisming and splitting from each other, its the reason we have to have this discussion.
Also you appeal to St. Augustine and Aquinas, but these people agree with me that there is only One True Church. The reason we have thousands of Protestant denominations in the first place is because we've separated Scripture from the Church and instead left it to textual critics and scholars.
Nearly half of the New Testament is literally Paul criticizing and rebuking other Christians and Churches for having wrong doctrine...
Because they were steering away from God’s word
And we need to criticize and rebuke others too when they do that because we are called to hold our brothers accountable to the Word.
Amen
Sorry if I misunderstand your post because I kind of was figuring my comments were going against what you were saying, but that’s ok, I’ll admit to just being confused!
Were you reading the original post I shared? Or my comment that I posted with it?
The original post, sorry, it probably wasn’t clear to me that there was an original and then a response. I admittedly didn’t read all of it because it was very long.
Yeah the original wasn’t mine, just the comment I posted with it. Feel like going back and taking a closer look?
Telling people that they are wrong for judging is a judgment itself.
Jesus gave us the church....Man gave us denominations...which if you consider it, are "decentralized". The cathaholics ; ) gave use a "centralized" church. Look at the stark difference in the amount of corruption between too groups.
While I 100% agree with the message you're conveying, that we shouldn't be spiteful or judging because of doctrinal differences, this is where you get it wrong.
Part of God's plan for man's salvation is the Church. Christ spoke of building and establishing His Church multiple times in the Gospels.
Multiple times in Scripture we see Paul talking about the laying on of hands, which is the appointing of successors and Bishops, which Christ gave the Apostles authority to do. There are Church Fathers and Saints mentioned by name in the Pauline epistles, Clement of Rome and Dionysius the Areopagite, who were Bishops in the Church appointed by the Apostles.
Jesus DID establish a Church, before the Gospels were written and the Bible was compiled, there was the Orthodox Catholic Church.
The post was not mine but the reply to it was. Yes Jesus began the church. He did NOT however create denominations or separate church doctrines. He gave instructions and we are to follow them. He never said that His word or instructions had a deadline when they would no longer be valid or relevant or that these things He instructed would have an expiration date. He never said the Holy Spirit would leave them at some point after He was sent or that the things Jesus said go and do in my name would cease once the Bible was all done being written. Too many act as if they do. If that’s true then I sure want to see the scripture because I am always in the Bible and have never come across that
You’re right in that he didn’t create denominations because his way was the perfect way. As mankind, we ought to emulate Christ. How you think that ought to be done and hire I think that ought to be done may differ. Perhaps you like new music and I like traditional music. Either is ok. Perhaps you see adult baptism but not infant baptism and I see infant baptism as ok. These differences are not clearly laid out, therefore each person may have their own interpretation. To more easily find like minded people, we may group ourselves to a certain denomination, that’s ok. But many Christians deny the basics of the gospel. That’s not ok.
Actually it's not okay, because if anyone can make up their own interpretation, then how do you know the verses in Scripture mean what you think they mean? Where do you derive the basis for discerning what is true and untrue? If anyone can make up their own denomination, whats wrong with Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses? By what means can you say their interpretation is incorrect? And how do you know what the "basics of the Gospel" are if it's just your own interpretation? Maybe I disagree with what you think the basics are, whos to say either is right or wrong?
The answer is the Church! And of course these differences are laid out, thats why the Church has councils like the Apostles did in the Apostolic times of the Church, look to Acts 15.
1 Timothy 3:15
The Bible is mostly black and white. So I don’t think most denominations are equivalent. Churches that are true churches must hold to the core tenets of the Christian faith. LGBT is directly spoken about in the Bible. There is no question what it says. Interpreting LGBT to be biblical is not an interpretation, it’s a twisting of the scriptures and is of the devil. Things I’ve mentioned are examples of gray areas of the scriptures. I’m not saying I’m of no opinion on these topics, I just don’t believe they are masters of salvation.
But then we have to ask, what exactly are the core tenents? There are no "core tenents" listed in Scripture, this is something left up to an individual interpretation, which again doesn't solve the issue of how do we know whos interpretation is correct.
Yes, there are parts of the Bible that are black and white, love thy neighbor, take up your Cross and follow me, etc.
There are also parts of the Bible that are very theologically difficult, such as Triadology and Christology. An incorrect interpretation of Scripture on these is a direct gateway to atheism, gnosticism, arianism, nestorianism, unitarianism, etc.
There's also no such thing as "the true Churches", Scripture says there is one Church, one Faith, one Body, not multiple.
And one last thing to ask yourself: who do you think compiled the Bible? Why, the Church did through a series of Councils.
I could easily and in long hand prove to you what I’m saying. But to keep it short and sweet, read the west minister larger and shorter catechisms, Belgic confession, cannons of dort, Heidelberg catechism, and the work of the reformers, st Augustine, RC Sproul, Thomas Aquinos, and the Bible pros associated with each. Nh alliance (multiple denominations) have a statement of faith that talks about the core tenets of the Christian faith, to include the scriptural references as well.
People from different sects agreeing doesn't change the fact that there is no exhaustive list in Scripture of "core tenents" that a Church must follow to be true.
And in the Orthodox view, we don't appeal to textual critics and scholars to discern which doctrines are correct. We have the Councils for a reason, like the one in Acts 15. The idea of leaving it to "Bible pros" and textual scholars is an idea from the reformation. It's what led to the thousands of different denominations schisming and splitting from each other, its the reason we have to have this discussion.
Also you appeal to St. Augustine and Aquinas, but these people agree with me that there is only One True Church. The reason we have thousands of Protestant denominations in the first place is because we've separated Scripture from the Church and instead left it to textual critics and scholars.
All of what you said is correct, but what do you mean by separate church doctrines?
Denominations and different church beliefs