Yes, the Sadducean priesthood was corrupt and held all the power - not in accordance with the law. Because they failed to do their job of teaching the people, this led to the rise of the Pharisaical sect. The Pharisees did the job of teaching the people that the priests failed to do. Jesus mostly interacted with the Pharisees because he had the most in common with them theologically. A careful reading of the text shows that not all Pharisees were antagonistic to Jesus - some were simply debating and discussing the finer points of the law and how it is applied. Jesus did not waste his time with the Sadducees because he had nothing in common with them. He also had no problems calling out BS when he confronted it. But he also was gracious when others were making honest inquiry as to his opinion. It was not all bad as many presume.
The history you laid out is absolutely correct. However, I would add this point. The Jews in Israel during the second temple period were always very aware that the Edomite converts were not converts by choice, but by force. Therefore in their eyes, these Edomites were not really considered converts by the Pharisees or the people. They were considered as illegitimate and frauds. The people had similar attitudes towards the Samaritans that were also not considered as Jews. Even though they occupied the lands formally held by the Northern Kingdom, the Samaritans were not considered legitimate. This was not a question of ethnicity as much as theology. Hence, the theological discussion with the Samaritan women at the well. Jesus corrected her on her wrong think.
Since the people did not accept Herod as a rightful king, he was angered greatly and became extremely paranoid because of it. He knew he did not hold a legitimate claim to the title of King of Israel and he would kill anyone that reminded him of that fact. He was such a butcher that Augustus reportedly quipped, "It is better to be Herod's pig than a son." Herod tried to make himself acceptable to the people by marrying a Hasmonean princess, whom he executed along with her sons. His building of the Temple was to keep up with the Roman Jones' and to quiet the people. The people were not buying it.
The point I was making was that to condemn an entire group of people based upon the actions of a few corrupt lying individuals, is in itself misguided and misplaced. They paid the price for their corruption. The Sadducean priesthood was wiped out by either the zealots during the siege of Jerusalem, or, by the Romans when they finally took the city. That generation suffered greatly for their failure to recognize the truth in their midst.
Paul said to the Gentiles, do not be puffed up in your own thinking because the Jews are blinded for your sake. Meaning, that there was - and is - a purpose for that blinding of the Jewish people initiated and held in place by God until such time as He choses to finally let them see. To condemn them for their blindness is akin to blaming God. We should be careful when hurling rocks at others because we may hit the wrong person and be held accountable by God for our hatred. This is not what Jesus taught.
Thank you for the history and taking the time to respond. Things I already knew, but others may not have known this information. We can agree to disagree as to what it all means. God bless you.
"Yes, the Sadducean priesthood was corrupt and held all the power, ..."
I'll reprint from my earlier post -- "and in exchange,she (queen Salome Alexandra) granted them (read the pharisees) all power over the government.
The Pharisees did the job of teaching the people that the priests failed to do."
Not quite. Again, I'll reprint:
"And, "...while the Sadducees are able to persuade none but the rich, and have the populace obsequious (i.e. kowtowing; servile) to them, (but) the Pharisees have the multitude on their side." (Ref. Jose. "Antiquities of the Jews," Whiston, pg. 281).
The fact of the matter was the people favored the Pharisees, while the rich and powerful (i.e., the slave owners) favored the Sadducees.
Simply stated, the Pharisees and Essenes were at variance with the Sadducees (and the Romans) on the issue of slavery. As to the Pharisees, Josephus says; *"...they follow the conduct of reason..." Meaning a) ethics, and b) that the leaders of the Pharisees were not 'religious', as in following after 'beliefs' over practicality, and c) "...they also pay respect to such (as) that are in years..." (i.e., they honored and respected their elders). And furthermore, "...they do not take away the freedom from men..." Which indeed means that they were adverse to the idea of slavery. (Ref. Josephus, Whiston translation, page 376-377).
"Jesus mostly interacted with the Pharisees because he had the most in common with them theologically."
This is absolutely nonsensical. Seemingly, you have no idea to what the Pharisees believed in. Pharisaism ended Hebrewism and after the destruction of Herod's temple in 70 AD, it was directed to confront Christianity.
Titus razed Herod's massive temple to the ground. From the Haggadah, we read:
"Where was God under the rubble?" wondered the Rabbis. "How to praise him now that the temple was gone?" The sages agreed: Jews would have to become a people of the book, or they would disappear.
(Hence, they were NOT a people of the book (the Hebrew Bible) before this time.)
One thing remains certain: the Talmud, and the Haggadah along with it, was a response to a catastrophe so great it threatened to destroy a people. The first extant version of the Haggadah was ... unearthed in a manuscript of a siddur (prayer book) compiled by Saadia Goan in the 10th century.
*"The Jewish religion, as it is today, traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. The Talmud is the largest and most important single member of their literature; the study which is essential for a real understanding of Pharisaism." --Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, page 474.
Stephen S. Wise, deceased, and formerly Chief Rabbi of the United States stated, "The return from Babylon and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud marked the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."
The Babylonian Talmud was originally called - "The Tradition of the Elders" (laws of men). The Jews confirm this when talking to Christ in Matthew 15: 2, "Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread." Christ answered in the next verse "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" - Matthew 15: 9, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men."
More than 90% of Judaism today is Pharisaism. Every law in the Bible is diametrically opposed by the Talmud. In the 23rd chapter of Matthew, Christ identifies them by calling them Pharisees, not once but nine times. He heaps upon them the most scathing. denunciation ever recorded, calling them thieves, liars, hypocrites, murderers, etc., even responsible for all who have been killed upon this earth including the righteous Abel. Christ could not make this statement if the they were not descendants of Satan through Cain.
I'll quote from the 23rd chapter of Matthew starting with verse 13:
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither permit them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour your widow's houses, and for a pretense make long prayers; therefore, ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him, twofold more the child of hell then yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, who say, 'whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, whosoever shall swear by the altar it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is bound. Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whosoever, therefore, shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things on it. And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him who sitteth on it. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy and faith; these ought ye to have done not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the seputchers of the righteous, and say 'if we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' Wherefore ye are witnesses against yourselves, that ye are the sons of them who killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation (race) of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah, son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation (this race)."
It's so very clear Jesus rejected the scribes and Pharisees.....
The Jews in Israel during the second temple period were always very aware that the Edomite converts were not converts by choice, but by force. Therefore in their eyes, these Edomites were not really considered converts by the Pharisees or the people. They were considered as illegitimate and frauds.
Your statement doesn't seem to recognize that the vast majority of Israelites never returned to Judea, nor lived there. There was only the small community of Israelites in Galilee, in which Jesus came from. Jerusalem was very multicultural trade center and dominated by the Edomite majority. As a reward for being an ally of Nebachednezzar, the Edomites received the spoils of war including the vacant homes, businesses, farms, and orchards vacated by the conquered Israelites, who were carried away in captivity (slavery) to Babylon. The Greeks later conquered this region and named it 'Idumaea', meaning the land of Edomites. Obviously, they were the predominant population there. Further, We read --
"From this time the Idumeans [read: Edomites] became an inseparable part of the Jewish people”*, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, in Volume 8, page 1147. Also, "Edom is in modern Jewry". The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, Page 41, and/or vol 4, page 25. Finally, "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew'". - The 1980 Jewish Almanac's first chapter, p. 3 entitled "Identity Crisis."
Yes, the Sadducean priesthood was corrupt and held all the power - not in accordance with the law. Because they failed to do their job of teaching the people, this led to the rise of the Pharisaical sect. The Pharisees did the job of teaching the people that the priests failed to do. Jesus mostly interacted with the Pharisees because he had the most in common with them theologically. A careful reading of the text shows that not all Pharisees were antagonistic to Jesus - some were simply debating and discussing the finer points of the law and how it is applied. Jesus did not waste his time with the Sadducees because he had nothing in common with them. He also had no problems calling out BS when he confronted it. But he also was gracious when others were making honest inquiry as to his opinion. It was not all bad as many presume.
The history you laid out is absolutely correct. However, I would add this point. The Jews in Israel during the second temple period were always very aware that the Edomite converts were not converts by choice, but by force. Therefore in their eyes, these Edomites were not really considered converts by the Pharisees or the people. They were considered as illegitimate and frauds. The people had similar attitudes towards the Samaritans that were also not considered as Jews. Even though they occupied the lands formally held by the Northern Kingdom, the Samaritans were not considered legitimate. This was not a question of ethnicity as much as theology. Hence, the theological discussion with the Samaritan women at the well. Jesus corrected her on her wrong think.
Since the people did not accept Herod as a rightful king, he was angered greatly and became extremely paranoid because of it. He knew he did not hold a legitimate claim to the title of King of Israel and he would kill anyone that reminded him of that fact. He was such a butcher that Augustus reportedly quipped, "It is better to be Herod's pig than a son." Herod tried to make himself acceptable to the people by marrying a Hasmonean princess, whom he executed along with her sons. His building of the Temple was to keep up with the Roman Jones' and to quiet the people. The people were not buying it.
The point I was making was that to condemn an entire group of people based upon the actions of a few corrupt lying individuals, is in itself misguided and misplaced. They paid the price for their corruption. The Sadducean priesthood was wiped out by either the zealots during the siege of Jerusalem, or, by the Romans when they finally took the city. That generation suffered greatly for their failure to recognize the truth in their midst.
Paul said to the Gentiles, do not be puffed up in your own thinking because the Jews are blinded for your sake. Meaning, that there was - and is - a purpose for that blinding of the Jewish people initiated and held in place by God until such time as He choses to finally let them see. To condemn them for their blindness is akin to blaming God. We should be careful when hurling rocks at others because we may hit the wrong person and be held accountable by God for our hatred. This is not what Jesus taught.
Thank you for the history and taking the time to respond. Things I already knew, but others may not have known this information. We can agree to disagree as to what it all means. God bless you.
I'll reprint from my earlier post -- "and in exchange,she (queen Salome Alexandra) granted them (read the pharisees) all power over the government.
Not quite. Again, I'll reprint:
"And, "...while the Sadducees are able to persuade none but the rich, and have the populace obsequious (i.e. kowtowing; servile) to them, (but) the Pharisees have the multitude on their side." (Ref. Jose. "Antiquities of the Jews," Whiston, pg. 281).
The fact of the matter was the people favored the Pharisees, while the rich and powerful (i.e., the slave owners) favored the Sadducees.
Simply stated, the Pharisees and Essenes were at variance with the Sadducees (and the Romans) on the issue of slavery. As to the Pharisees, Josephus says; *"...they follow the conduct of reason..." Meaning a) ethics, and b) that the leaders of the Pharisees were not 'religious', as in following after 'beliefs' over practicality, and c) "...they also pay respect to such (as) that are in years..." (i.e., they honored and respected their elders). And furthermore, "...they do not take away the freedom from men..." Which indeed means that they were adverse to the idea of slavery. (Ref. Josephus, Whiston translation, page 376-377).
This is absolutely nonsensical. Seemingly, you have no idea to what the Pharisees believed in. Pharisaism ended Hebrewism and after the destruction of Herod's temple in 70 AD, it was directed to confront Christianity.
Titus razed Herod's massive temple to the ground. From the Haggadah, we read:
"Where was God under the rubble?" wondered the Rabbis. "How to praise him now that the temple was gone?" The sages agreed: Jews would have to become a people of the book, or they would disappear.
(Hence, they were NOT a people of the book (the Hebrew Bible) before this time.)
One thing remains certain: the Talmud, and the Haggadah along with it, was a response to a catastrophe so great it threatened to destroy a people. The first extant version of the Haggadah was ... unearthed in a manuscript of a siddur (prayer book) compiled by Saadia Goan in the 10th century.
*"The Jewish religion, as it is today, traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. The Talmud is the largest and most important single member of their literature; the study which is essential for a real understanding of Pharisaism." --Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, page 474.
Stephen S. Wise, deceased, and formerly Chief Rabbi of the United States stated, "The return from Babylon and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud marked the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."
The Babylonian Talmud was originally called - "The Tradition of the Elders" (laws of men). The Jews confirm this when talking to Christ in Matthew 15: 2, "Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they wash not their hands when they eat bread." Christ answered in the next verse "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" - Matthew 15: 9, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men."
More than 90% of Judaism today is Pharisaism. Every law in the Bible is diametrically opposed by the Talmud. In the 23rd chapter of Matthew, Christ identifies them by calling them Pharisees, not once but nine times. He heaps upon them the most scathing. denunciation ever recorded, calling them thieves, liars, hypocrites, murderers, etc., even responsible for all who have been killed upon this earth including the righteous Abel. Christ could not make this statement if the they were not descendants of Satan through Cain.
I'll quote from the 23rd chapter of Matthew starting with verse 13:
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither permit them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour your widow's houses, and for a pretense make long prayers; therefore, ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him, twofold more the child of hell then yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, who say, 'whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, whosoever shall swear by the altar it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is bound. Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whosoever, therefore, shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things on it. And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him who sitteth on it. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy and faith; these ought ye to have done not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the seputchers of the righteous, and say 'if we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' Wherefore ye are witnesses against yourselves, that ye are the sons of them who killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation (race) of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes; and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city, that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah, son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation (this race)."
It's so very clear Jesus rejected the scribes and Pharisees.....
Your statement doesn't seem to recognize that the vast majority of Israelites never returned to Judea, nor lived there. There was only the small community of Israelites in Galilee, in which Jesus came from. Jerusalem was very multicultural trade center and dominated by the Edomite majority. As a reward for being an ally of Nebachednezzar, the Edomites received the spoils of war including the vacant homes, businesses, farms, and orchards vacated by the conquered Israelites, who were carried away in captivity (slavery) to Babylon. The Greeks later conquered this region and named it 'Idumaea', meaning the land of Edomites. Obviously, they were the predominant population there. Further, We read --
"From this time the Idumeans [read: Edomites] became an inseparable part of the Jewish people”*, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, in Volume 8, page 1147. Also, "Edom is in modern Jewry". The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, Page 41, and/or vol 4, page 25. Finally, "Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an 'Israelite' or a 'Hebrew'". - The 1980 Jewish Almanac's first chapter, p. 3 entitled "Identity Crisis."