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243
CIA unveiled the "Heart Attack Gun" (1975). A battery operated gun that shot a dart of frozen water and shellfish toxin. The dart would only leave a tiny red dot and an autopsy would conclude death from heart attack. (twitter.com)
posted 3 years ago by goldentomatoes1 3 years ago by goldentomatoes1 +243 / -0
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– DeathRayDesigner 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

Good try, but insufficient to preclude a working design. You make too many assumptions. But let's check. You don't actually estimate a volume for the ice "needle" but let us suppose a frontal area of 4 square millimeters and a length of 20 millimeters = 80 cubic millimeters = 0.08 cubic centimeter => 0.08 gram (water ice density ~ 1 gram/cc). Muzzle velocity is not limited so much by energy as by the expansion process, so a muzzle velocity of 150 m/sec is not unreasonable. This is where the sabot comes in, which would provide some mass to moderate the acceleration and structural support for the needle. (There is no shock wave inside an air pistol.) It would aerodynamically peel away once free of the muzzle.

A muzzle velocity of 150 m/sec would equate to 500 fps, or 340 mph, so stick your hand outside the window of your car at that speed and encounter a particle of hail and see if it penetrates. Something pointed would penetrate just fine. Arrows travel at 100 to 300 fps and penetrate most regularly. (I once pounded my fist against an interior wall and discovered I had been penetrated by a nail head. Never noticed it, and I can bet you my fist was not traveling anything close to 340 mph.)

The scope is not B.S. Ever shot a target at 50 feet? Even a 2x scope would come in handy for fine work. Having a reticle zeroed to the weapon would be a lot better than a standard pair of sights. (Why you would scorn something that would improve your aim suggests to me you are not cut out to be an assassin. But that's not a bad thing.)

So, the minimum perforation velocity does not seem to be a problem, and there is no minimum mass limitation if a sabot is used (as it surely would have to be in order to maintain support for the needle and avoid wear/tear against the gun barrel). It looks credible upon analysis.

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– deleted 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0
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– DeathRayDesigner 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

You missed the part about the ice needle containing the tetrodotoxin. A tiny, tiny dose leads to sure death from an "apparent heart attack." It is not the projectile; it is the poison. You need to read carefully about how this works.

No, muzzle velocity is limited by what can be achieved by the expansion of a gas under pressure and is related to the speed of sound of the gas. This is not a weapon powered by combustion, which makes higher velocities possible (higher gas temperatures). Lewis and Clark had a smoothbore long arm that was powered by compressed air, with which they hunted for (e.g.) deer during their expedition to the Pacific coast. I saw an example of such a gun at the reconstructed Fort Clatsop. No problem getting enough energy to do the job.

The sabot separates from the projectile within a yard of the muzzle. The assassin picks it up and exits Stage Left. This is not theory. Sabots have been around for a long time. They could even be made of environmentally degradable material.

No shock waves. I worked interior ballistics of rocket motors; I know what a shock wave is, and they do not occur for air pistols/rifles. You open a valve, pressure mounts, expands down the barrel, and it is over with. No detonation. No shock. Rapid acceleration onset, but not a shock. Even a conventional gun has a combustion process, not a detonation process. Any such harmonic response by the barrel would be less than for a regular firearm, since things are not happening as fast.

"Second-order factors" at subsonic speed? I am an aerodynamicist by training, and you are talking through your hat. Air density is the only issue, and so long as it doesn't change dramatically over the path of the projectile, there is no problem. And even if it did change, there would not be much effect. Now you are grabbing at straws, since air density would affect ANY projectile weapon. A crosswind would be more of a problem.

As for the scope, I have to chuckle. Somehow a man with a pistol will be ignored---but a man with a pistol AND A SCOPE will stand out like a sore thumb? Do you realize how ridiculous this is? If he is going to be ignored for a pistol, the scope will not make him more obvious. This is part of the stealth of an assassination.

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– deleted 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0
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– DeathRayDesigner 2 points 3 years ago +2 / -0

A shock wave is a discontinuous change in pressure and density, obtained only through hard impact or from a detonation. (A step function, not a Dirac delta, which is not a physical process.) Neither are present in regular firearms or airguns. There may be a response to pressure loads, but they are not "shock." And common experience shows that they are no hindrance to high accuracy of such mediocre projectiles as spheres (BBs). I've had occasion to instrument a solid propellant rocket motor to track down an actual shock wave transient in its ignition process. We needed to have a transponder that had a time resolution of about 1 millisecond (1000 Hz). This is nothing like that. The practical reality (as I mentioned) is that there is no such problem with airguns.

You are making it up as you go along. First, the scope will be noticed, but not the pistol. Now, the scope will be noticed so much that the pistol will also be noticed? Why don't we agree that a competent assassin will take pains to conceal what he is doing? There is no question that the scope will help him hit his target point. (I am a shooter and hitting anything within a hand at 50 feet is not easy with iron sights.)

I happen to be a retired aeronautical engineer, who knows a lot about shock waves in tubes (graduate research and production engineering). I also have a long background in firearms information. You happen to be a guy with a little bit of knowledge, who is reaching wrong conclusions.

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