Contrails hang around for a long time. I recall as a little boy sitting in our back yard that jet airplanes would cross the sky and leave behind a long, persistent trail.
There is no violation of the laws of physics. First of all, you get the mechanics wrong. It is not cold air going through a turbine, it is VERY HOT air expanding through a turbine, containing water vapor. When the exhaust mixes with the very cold high-altitude air, the water vapor first freezes because the air is already saturated with water vapor. As your wonderful graphs show very clearly, the saturation level (absolute humidity) is next to nothing. So the ice crystals that have formed and and are further cooled to air temperature will have an even lower vapor pressure and will persist for a long time. And they do. The second website that you so kindly brandish actually mentions this specifically. You have only proved that you do not understand the physics of contrails. Just because you THINK that scientific authorities are wrong doesn't mean they are actually wrong. If I am allowed to make a bet about you, I will bet you have no technical degree that touches on this subject.
Contrails are only clouds. What you say necessarily implies that there can be no clouds at high altitude, but there most definitely are.
I happen to be an aeronautical engineer of 40 years, and have lived with the manufacture of airplanes that actually fly in this environment. I can't help it if you don't understand the concept of relative humidity. Or that low temperature ice will have a very low vapor pressure and thus a long persistence.
I have posted comments on all kinds of things, mainly where I see that facts or logic are in error. I have been a long-standing critic of "global warming." I'm not a globalist and you have no grounds for making such a slur, since I have never spoken in its favor. I am in fact a nationalist---but I am not a nitwit and I do not go along with ignorant and paranoid nonsense.
The chemtrail theory has been around since the 1990s'. That would make you aprox 25 years old if you saw them as a young kid. If people were not talking about them before the 1990's, it most likely means they didn't exist before that time. How did you become this fantastic aeronautical engineer at such an early age?
I myself used to sit with friends and we would try to imagine everyday objects in the cloud formations. This was 45 years ago, and I can say with 100% certainty, there were no chemtrails at that time. White fluffy cloud and deep blue skies and that is it.
I don't know who you are or who you think you are fooling. You can act like the world's greatest engineer and spout how smart you are, it means nothing to me. That is typically how people act who have lost a conversation and your words are quite telling.
Your explanation of special ice persisting longer than normal ice is garbage. Water freezes one way. I provided you the graph that says close to zero water consent can be held in temperatures below zero and you continue to say the air is saturated with humidity. The graph proves you and the second website are lying.
i can look to the sky and see a plane leaving a chemtrail in the sky with a plane combing by minutes later with a normal contrail that dissipates within 10 seconds. Both flying at the same altitude.
Deductive reasoning tells me you are a bullshit artist and no amount of telling me my facts are in error will change the things I see on a daily basis.
I am 57. I had never heard about Chem Trails until I joined here. Well, though, Alex Jones. I do not understand what the Conspiracy theory is about. And I could give two shits about it.
You guys specialize in being wrong. I am 72 and saw contrails when I must have been about 4 years old. They were undoubtedly B-52s on test flights from the Boeing plant in Seattle. Like chalk streaks across the sky. I also live south of a major international airport, and they are as common as clouds (and the Pacific Northwest is noted for clouds).
The reason that people didn't talk about them much until the 1990s is because it was only about then that passenger jetliners were flying close to 40,000 feet or higher. At those altitudes, the air is colder, depending on latitude (i.e., tropopause height). And at lower pressure, so the saturation vapor pressure would be much lower, and ice would stay frozen much longer. Military aircraft commonly flew at 50,000 feet, so it was no mystery that they would always generate contrails. On a very noteworthy summer at the University of Washington, a Fraternity brother and I noticed a contrail that was proceeding across the sky at an unusual rate. Trying to measure the angle rate and guessing the altitude was military (i.e., 50,000 ft), we estimated the speed as being about Mach 2+ and concluded it must have been an SR-71. That would have been the early 1970s (they entered service in 1966).
The "chemtrail" hypothesis (not analytical enough to be a "theory") is simple fancy. The proponents (like you) declare they know all about contrails, and you really don't know anything but falsehoods. You also don't like people who have credentials in the relevant fields, but that also comes with the false egalitarianism of the internet. You don't like it when experts apply their expertise, because the expert wannabees show up badly.
What I am saying is consistent with both the graph you presented and the other website. You are the one having the trouble making sense out of them. You simply don't understand what they mean.
The air has some water vapor content even at high altitude, albeit very small. The saturation vapor pressure is very low, close to zero on the arithmetic scale, but present nonetheless. The water vapor will freeze. If the temperature is cold enough, it will attain a temperature below freezing---and the vapor pressure of the ice crystal will be very low. (The vapor pressure is one 10,000th of sea level pressure at -50 C.) Low enough that it may take a very long time for it to dissipate, or possibly not at all, since clouds of ice crystals will have their own local atmosphere saturation high in water vapor. (Cirrus clouds, for example, can form as high as 66,000 feet, and they hang around for a long time. Contrails are only artificial cirrus clouds.)
Do you really know that airplanes are at the same altitude, or do they only appear to be at the same altitude? There will be a transition altitude where contrails will prevail. At altitudes below 20,000 feet, they generally do not form.
What you are seeing are contrails and your "bullshit" claim is itself bullshit. Your attempt to prove they are not is a failure, since you don't understand what you are looking at. The upper air is mostly at saturation humidity---which is a very LOW humidity. That's the part you don't understand. And if the ice gets down to the air temperature, it is so cold that its vapor pressure is very, very LOW. Just consider frozen ponds. They have a vapor pressure. Why don't they just go away by sublimation? But they don't. They persist. Because the vapor pressure is so low, the process is very slow. Antarctica is nothing but ice. According to your hypothesis, it should never persist. Tell that to Antarctica.
Here is the great problem of the Awakening: a little bit of knowledge and a huge dose of mistaken belief are almost insuperable obstacles to waking up to reality. You are there on the front lines. Have sympathy for the poor jerk who doesn't get all this conspiracy stuff...or the poor conspiracy buff that doesn't want to give up his paranoia.
Wrong. You only hope and think I am wrong. Or you would have said something to refute what I have explained. But why would you? I am only recounting atmospheric physics. Again and again, you guys out yourselves as being know-nothings or nincompoops by unsubstantiated denial and personal jeering.
Contrails hang around for a long time. I recall as a little boy sitting in our back yard that jet airplanes would cross the sky and leave behind a long, persistent trail.
There is no violation of the laws of physics. First of all, you get the mechanics wrong. It is not cold air going through a turbine, it is VERY HOT air expanding through a turbine, containing water vapor. When the exhaust mixes with the very cold high-altitude air, the water vapor first freezes because the air is already saturated with water vapor. As your wonderful graphs show very clearly, the saturation level (absolute humidity) is next to nothing. So the ice crystals that have formed and and are further cooled to air temperature will have an even lower vapor pressure and will persist for a long time. And they do. The second website that you so kindly brandish actually mentions this specifically. You have only proved that you do not understand the physics of contrails. Just because you THINK that scientific authorities are wrong doesn't mean they are actually wrong. If I am allowed to make a bet about you, I will bet you have no technical degree that touches on this subject.
Contrails are only clouds. What you say necessarily implies that there can be no clouds at high altitude, but there most definitely are.
I happen to be an aeronautical engineer of 40 years, and have lived with the manufacture of airplanes that actually fly in this environment. I can't help it if you don't understand the concept of relative humidity. Or that low temperature ice will have a very low vapor pressure and thus a long persistence.
I have posted comments on all kinds of things, mainly where I see that facts or logic are in error. I have been a long-standing critic of "global warming." I'm not a globalist and you have no grounds for making such a slur, since I have never spoken in its favor. I am in fact a nationalist---but I am not a nitwit and I do not go along with ignorant and paranoid nonsense.
The chemtrail theory has been around since the 1990s'. That would make you aprox 25 years old if you saw them as a young kid. If people were not talking about them before the 1990's, it most likely means they didn't exist before that time. How did you become this fantastic aeronautical engineer at such an early age?
I myself used to sit with friends and we would try to imagine everyday objects in the cloud formations. This was 45 years ago, and I can say with 100% certainty, there were no chemtrails at that time. White fluffy cloud and deep blue skies and that is it.
I don't know who you are or who you think you are fooling. You can act like the world's greatest engineer and spout how smart you are, it means nothing to me. That is typically how people act who have lost a conversation and your words are quite telling.
Your explanation of special ice persisting longer than normal ice is garbage. Water freezes one way. I provided you the graph that says close to zero water consent can be held in temperatures below zero and you continue to say the air is saturated with humidity. The graph proves you and the second website are lying.
i can look to the sky and see a plane leaving a chemtrail in the sky with a plane combing by minutes later with a normal contrail that dissipates within 10 seconds. Both flying at the same altitude.
Deductive reasoning tells me you are a bullshit artist and no amount of telling me my facts are in error will change the things I see on a daily basis.
I am 57. I had never heard about Chem Trails until I joined here. Well, though, Alex Jones. I do not understand what the Conspiracy theory is about. And I could give two shits about it.
You guys specialize in being wrong. I am 72 and saw contrails when I must have been about 4 years old. They were undoubtedly B-52s on test flights from the Boeing plant in Seattle. Like chalk streaks across the sky. I also live south of a major international airport, and they are as common as clouds (and the Pacific Northwest is noted for clouds).
The reason that people didn't talk about them much until the 1990s is because it was only about then that passenger jetliners were flying close to 40,000 feet or higher. At those altitudes, the air is colder, depending on latitude (i.e., tropopause height). And at lower pressure, so the saturation vapor pressure would be much lower, and ice would stay frozen much longer. Military aircraft commonly flew at 50,000 feet, so it was no mystery that they would always generate contrails. On a very noteworthy summer at the University of Washington, a Fraternity brother and I noticed a contrail that was proceeding across the sky at an unusual rate. Trying to measure the angle rate and guessing the altitude was military (i.e., 50,000 ft), we estimated the speed as being about Mach 2+ and concluded it must have been an SR-71. That would have been the early 1970s (they entered service in 1966).
The "chemtrail" hypothesis (not analytical enough to be a "theory") is simple fancy. The proponents (like you) declare they know all about contrails, and you really don't know anything but falsehoods. You also don't like people who have credentials in the relevant fields, but that also comes with the false egalitarianism of the internet. You don't like it when experts apply their expertise, because the expert wannabees show up badly.
What I am saying is consistent with both the graph you presented and the other website. You are the one having the trouble making sense out of them. You simply don't understand what they mean.
The air has some water vapor content even at high altitude, albeit very small. The saturation vapor pressure is very low, close to zero on the arithmetic scale, but present nonetheless. The water vapor will freeze. If the temperature is cold enough, it will attain a temperature below freezing---and the vapor pressure of the ice crystal will be very low. (The vapor pressure is one 10,000th of sea level pressure at -50 C.) Low enough that it may take a very long time for it to dissipate, or possibly not at all, since clouds of ice crystals will have their own local atmosphere saturation high in water vapor. (Cirrus clouds, for example, can form as high as 66,000 feet, and they hang around for a long time. Contrails are only artificial cirrus clouds.)
Do you really know that airplanes are at the same altitude, or do they only appear to be at the same altitude? There will be a transition altitude where contrails will prevail. At altitudes below 20,000 feet, they generally do not form.
What you are seeing are contrails and your "bullshit" claim is itself bullshit. Your attempt to prove they are not is a failure, since you don't understand what you are looking at. The upper air is mostly at saturation humidity---which is a very LOW humidity. That's the part you don't understand. And if the ice gets down to the air temperature, it is so cold that its vapor pressure is very, very LOW. Just consider frozen ponds. They have a vapor pressure. Why don't they just go away by sublimation? But they don't. They persist. Because the vapor pressure is so low, the process is very slow. Antarctica is nothing but ice. According to your hypothesis, it should never persist. Tell that to Antarctica.
Here is the great problem of the Awakening: a little bit of knowledge and a huge dose of mistaken belief are almost insuperable obstacles to waking up to reality. You are there on the front lines. Have sympathy for the poor jerk who doesn't get all this conspiracy stuff...or the poor conspiracy buff that doesn't want to give up his paranoia.
Your wrong and full of poop.
Wrong. You only hope and think I am wrong. Or you would have said something to refute what I have explained. But why would you? I am only recounting atmospheric physics. Again and again, you guys out yourselves as being know-nothings or nincompoops by unsubstantiated denial and personal jeering.