You reply with more talking points? Where is you refutation? Where is your evidence? I've got plenty!
I told you that I'd openly debate you -- pick your spot. Paul, Old Testament, Church Fathers. You know, something that was written down long ago, not a modern day preacher that wants to tell you 'everything is easy, come to my church, help me pay my rent.'
You sound just like a liberal, spouting 'the other guy is bad' while refusing to read the Biblical and historical evidence. I teach Scripture. I can answer anything you'd like to throw at me.
And again, just like a liberal, saying 'look how fragile you are', 'you should have ignored my devilish words if you were really strong', in other words -- 'I should be allowed to say anything without being challenged'. Not here.
You want to know who 'follows the traditions of men'? Those who followed men away from Jesus Christ's Church.
You want to know who 'follows Satan'? Those who slander and divide.
Where is your evidence? You show me your wishful interpretations, and I'll show you my hard, cold evidence. Or do you not want to play with someone who knows their stuff?
Explain to me how the men who learned directly from the Apostles are unanimous in their description of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more -- but you, 2000 years later, somehow 'know better'. If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', explain why you believe in the Bible that they put together.
Of course, you could also just throw back some talking points that make you feel comfortable...
Your challenges are infantile. This is just off the top of my head...
Graven images that are idols are forbidden. Not any image. Again, that would mean that you would need to remove all family photos from your house. Have you done that?
Exodus 25:17:22 - Note that this is GOD speaking to Moses (assumedly you will accept God's authority)...
“Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you. 22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.
This is AFTER God hands down the Ten Commandments, where he says 'no idols'. Do you think he forgot? Just had a lot on his mind that day?
God says no graven images that are other gods. Give up on the idol argument. You lose. God himself has spoken.
Regarding 'Holy Father'.... In Matthew 16, Jesus says (I hope you accept his authority), that Peter shall get 'the keys to the kingdom of heaven'. There is only one other place in the entire Bible that mentions someone getting 'keys to the kingdom', and that is Isaiah 22. (This is known as typology, where something in the OT foreshadows a fulfillment in the NT.) In OT times, when a king had to leave the kingdom, he gave 'the keys' to someone who had authority to 'open and shut' or 'bind and loose' in order to keep the kingdom in one piece. (Only one Church can claim that record, by the way.) Jesus was just about to leave this world, so he assigned the keys to Peter. The OT prefigurement is in Isaiah 22:
20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a FATHER to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
That last line echoes 'What is bound/loosed on earth is bound/loosed in heaven'. More authority.
You still haven't addressed my main question to you. Will you ignore it once again?
Explain to me how the Early Church Fathers (the men who learned directly from the Apostles) are unanimous in their writings of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more.
If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', why do you believe in the Bible that THESE MEN put together?
Yep, back to talking points. And ignoring my main question...yet again.
I am interpreting things the exact same way they did in the earliest years of the church - when the Apostles were still around to clarify things. You are the one with a skewed interpretation.
Every single man who put the Bible together in Hippo and Carthage says that everything you just said is wrong. Every. Single. Man. Are they Satan followers?
And if so, why do you trust the Bible they compiled?
Peter has never been historically verified as the bishop of Rome, that is purely Catholic tradition. No apostle held up Peter has being more special or authoritative than the rest of the group.
No apostle ever taught salvation by works, as the Catholics do.
No apostle ever taught the existence of Purgatory.
No apostle taught us to pray to dead saints (and the OT specifically bans attempting to communicate with the dead).
No apostle ever taught long, vain, repetitious prayers, and Jesus specifically warned against such practices.
No apostle ever commanded to murder those who teach the gospel and translate the Bible, something the Catholics did for centuries.
You reply with more talking points? Where is you refutation? Where is your evidence? I've got plenty!
I told you that I'd openly debate you -- pick your spot. Paul, Old Testament, Church Fathers. You know, something that was written down long ago, not a modern day preacher that wants to tell you 'everything is easy, come to my church, help me pay my rent.'
You sound just like a liberal, spouting 'the other guy is bad' while refusing to read the Biblical and historical evidence. I teach Scripture. I can answer anything you'd like to throw at me.
And again, just like a liberal, saying 'look how fragile you are', 'you should have ignored my devilish words if you were really strong', in other words -- 'I should be allowed to say anything without being challenged'. Not here.
You want to know who 'follows the traditions of men'? Those who followed men away from Jesus Christ's Church.
You want to know who 'follows Satan'? Those who slander and divide.
Where is your evidence? You show me your wishful interpretations, and I'll show you my hard, cold evidence. Or do you not want to play with someone who knows their stuff?
Explain to me how the men who learned directly from the Apostles are unanimous in their description of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more -- but you, 2000 years later, somehow 'know better'. If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', explain why you believe in the Bible that they put together.
Of course, you could also just throw back some talking points that make you feel comfortable...
Your challenges are infantile. This is just off the top of my head...
Graven images that are idols are forbidden. Not any image. Again, that would mean that you would need to remove all family photos from your house. Have you done that?
Exodus 25:17:22 - Note that this is GOD speaking to Moses (assumedly you will accept God's authority)...
“Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you. 22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.
This is AFTER God hands down the Ten Commandments, where he says 'no idols'. Do you think he forgot? Just had a lot on his mind that day?
God says no graven images that are other gods. Give up on the idol argument. You lose. God himself has spoken.
Regarding 'Holy Father'.... In Matthew 16, Jesus says (I hope you accept his authority), that Peter shall get 'the keys to the kingdom of heaven'. There is only one other place in the entire Bible that mentions someone getting 'keys to the kingdom', and that is Isaiah 22. (This is known as typology, where something in the OT foreshadows a fulfillment in the NT.) In OT times, when a king had to leave the kingdom, he gave 'the keys' to someone who had authority to 'open and shut' or 'bind and loose' in order to keep the kingdom in one piece. (Only one Church can claim that record, by the way.) Jesus was just about to leave this world, so he assigned the keys to Peter. The OT prefigurement is in Isaiah 22:
20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a FATHER to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
That last line echoes 'What is bound/loosed on earth is bound/loosed in heaven'. More authority.
You still haven't addressed my main question to you. Will you ignore it once again?
Explain to me how the Early Church Fathers (the men who learned directly from the Apostles) are unanimous in their writings of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more.
If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', why do you believe in the Bible that THESE MEN put together?
Yep, back to talking points. And ignoring my main question...yet again.
I am interpreting things the exact same way they did in the earliest years of the church - when the Apostles were still around to clarify things. You are the one with a skewed interpretation.
Every single man who put the Bible together in Hippo and Carthage says that everything you just said is wrong. Every. Single. Man. Are they Satan followers?
And if so, why do you trust the Bible they compiled?
The Apostles never taught transubstantiation.
Peter has never been historically verified as the bishop of Rome, that is purely Catholic tradition. No apostle held up Peter has being more special or authoritative than the rest of the group.
No apostle ever taught salvation by works, as the Catholics do.
No apostle ever taught the existence of Purgatory.
No apostle taught us to pray to dead saints (and the OT specifically bans attempting to communicate with the dead).
No apostle ever taught long, vain, repetitious prayers, and Jesus specifically warned against such practices.
No apostle ever commanded to murder those who teach the gospel and translate the Bible, something the Catholics did for centuries.
Shall I continue?