I use the Bible to explain who the Jews and Israelites are.
But you seem to be saying that the Bible says the Jews and Israelites were the same people. Maybe you weren't saying that, but that is how it came across.
The "Jews" and the Israelites were two DIFFERENT, DISTINCT people.
The tribe of Judah and Israel were call Israel during the time of Solomon
True. Jacob/Israel had 12 sons, who were the patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel, who received the Covenant from God. This is why they were "God's Chosen People."
At first, they formed the Kingdom of Israel, then 2 of the 12 tribes split off.
and only split away from each other after his son started to rule. There were many of all the tribes that moved to Judah after the split.
No, when the Kingdom of Judah split from the Kingdom of Israel, there were only two tribes -- Judah and Benjamin -- who became the Kingdom of Judah. These were all Israelites, because they were genetic descents of Jacob/Israel. They just happened to be a sub-set of that family tree.
Starting in Genesis 4:25 and going through Genesis 5, we can trace a direct genetic family tree from Adam through Seth to Noah.
Noah was chosen by God to build the ark due to Noah being "perfect in his ancestry."
It is ALL ABOUT the family tree -- ONE particular branch of it.
Then, starting in Genesis 9:26 and going through Genesis 11, we can further trace this family tree from Noah, through Shem, directly to Abram/Abraham.
Abraham gets the Covenant, passing it to his son and grandson, Issac and Jacob/Israel.
Later, in Matthew 1, we can trace from Jacob/Israel, through Judah, directly to Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, Himself.
So, God creates Adam, and one particular branch of his family tree is traced all through the Bible down through and back to God Himself, in the form of Jesus Christ.
The entire thing is a family tree -- direct genetic descendents.
This is why it is crucial to understand the distinction between the Kingdom of Israel, the Kingdom of Judah, the tribe of Judah, the Israelite people, and those people who later would live in the Roman province of Judea, called Judeans, but were not necessarily directly related to Judah, and therefore NOT Israelites.
The ancient Israelites were referred to a Jews in several parts of the OT. I'll stick with what the Bible says over the Jewish Almanac.
The Jewish Almanac is useful to show that the jews themselves admit they are NOT Israelites.
The Old Testament was the story of the Israelites (NOT "jews"), as well as other people (some of whom were "jews").
2Ch 11:16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
Those that stayed faithful to God moved south to Judah. The Levites and others according to God.
2Ch 11:3 Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin, saying,
Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Peter knew all Israel was represented there. Just because a nation is destroyed does not mean the people disappeared!
2Ch 11:3 Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin ...
The Judahites and Benjaminites, who formed the Kingdom of Judah, were ALSO Israelites. They were ALL Israelites because they were ALL direct genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel.
But they were fighting each other, too.
Those that stayed faithful to God moved south to Judah. The Levites and others according to God.
The House of Judah and the House of Benjamin (all related by blood, as they were all Israelites) broke from their cousins to form the Kingdom of Judah.
LATER, some Levites (also related by blood) went to Judah because they were kicked out of the Kingdom of Israel.
1Ch 11:14:
For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the Lord
The Levites were most of the priests, and they were kicked out of Israel, so they went to Judah. These people were all related by blood (all "Israelites") but had disputes amongst themselves.
Peter knew all Israel was represented there.
Peter was a Benjaminite. Which means his ancestors were of the Tribe of Benjamin, and originally formed the Kingdom of Judah (along with the Judahites) after the split. But, so what?
Just because a nation is destroyed does not mean the people disappeared!
I never said they disappeared.
I showed how the Bible explains the direct, genetic family tree of all these people, but you chose to ignore that.
It is one of the most important things to understand in the entire Bible. Without that understanding, there is no way to understand the Bible.
It all depends on what time period/era we are talking about.
The original split was the Tribe of Judah with the Tribe of Benjamin breaking away from their Israelite cousins.
Later, as you pointed out, some Levites and others also left the Kingdom of Israel and moved to the Kingdom of Judah. All of these people were Israelites, as they were direct genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel and his 12 sons.
But once the Babylonians captured them and took them off to Babylon, it all changed.
When they came back, the people living in the former Kingdom of Judah were a variety of people. Some were original Judahites and other Israelites.
But other people were Edomites (jews), Canaanites (jews), Hittites and others.
By the time of Jesus, the area was under the control of the Roman Empire, and that area was now a province of Rome called Judea.
The Bible, especially the New Testament, cannot really be understood without understanding this history.
That's because the word "jew" was never in the original text in Hebrew or Greek.
It was an English word that was created more than 1,000 years later to describe certain people who (a) were resident in the Roman province of Judea (and thus, "Judeans"), (b) were not genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel (thus were not "Israelites" nor "Judahites"), but (c) pretended that they were.
Also, they practiced Judaism, not Hebrewism (pre-Christianity).
This is why Jesus talks to them and refers to them the way He does in John 8 and Rev 2 & 3.
But you seem to be saying that the Bible says the Jews and Israelites were the same people. Maybe you weren't saying that, but that is how it came across.
The "Jews" and the Israelites were two DIFFERENT, DISTINCT people.
True. Jacob/Israel had 12 sons, who were the patriarchs of the 12 tribes of Israel, who received the Covenant from God. This is why they were "God's Chosen People."
At first, they formed the Kingdom of Israel, then 2 of the 12 tribes split off.
No, when the Kingdom of Judah split from the Kingdom of Israel, there were only two tribes -- Judah and Benjamin -- who became the Kingdom of Judah. These were all Israelites, because they were genetic descents of Jacob/Israel. They just happened to be a sub-set of that family tree.
Starting in Genesis 4:25 and going through Genesis 5, we can trace a direct genetic family tree from Adam through Seth to Noah.
Noah was chosen by God to build the ark due to Noah being "perfect in his ancestry."
It is ALL ABOUT the family tree -- ONE particular branch of it.
Then, starting in Genesis 9:26 and going through Genesis 11, we can further trace this family tree from Noah, through Shem, directly to Abram/Abraham.
Abraham gets the Covenant, passing it to his son and grandson, Issac and Jacob/Israel.
Later, in Matthew 1, we can trace from Jacob/Israel, through Judah, directly to Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, Himself.
So, God creates Adam, and one particular branch of his family tree is traced all through the Bible down through and back to God Himself, in the form of Jesus Christ.
The entire thing is a family tree -- direct genetic descendents.
This is why it is crucial to understand the distinction between the Kingdom of Israel, the Kingdom of Judah, the tribe of Judah, the Israelite people, and those people who later would live in the Roman province of Judea, called Judeans, but were not necessarily directly related to Judah, and therefore NOT Israelites.
The Jewish Almanac is useful to show that the jews themselves admit they are NOT Israelites.
The Old Testament was the story of the Israelites (NOT "jews"), as well as other people (some of whom were "jews").
2Ch 11:16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
Those that stayed faithful to God moved south to Judah. The Levites and others according to God.
2Ch 11:3 Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin, saying,
Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Peter knew all Israel was represented there. Just because a nation is destroyed does not mean the people disappeared!
Anyway, enough arguing over this.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
The Judahites and Benjaminites, who formed the Kingdom of Judah, were ALSO Israelites. They were ALL Israelites because they were ALL direct genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel.
But they were fighting each other, too.
The House of Judah and the House of Benjamin (all related by blood, as they were all Israelites) broke from their cousins to form the Kingdom of Judah.
LATER, some Levites (also related by blood) went to Judah because they were kicked out of the Kingdom of Israel.
1Ch 11:14:
The Levites were most of the priests, and they were kicked out of Israel, so they went to Judah. These people were all related by blood (all "Israelites") but had disputes amongst themselves.
Peter was a Benjaminite. Which means his ancestors were of the Tribe of Benjamin, and originally formed the Kingdom of Judah (along with the Judahites) after the split. But, so what?
I never said they disappeared.
I showed how the Bible explains the direct, genetic family tree of all these people, but you chose to ignore that.
It is one of the most important things to understand in the entire Bible. Without that understanding, there is no way to understand the Bible.
I am saying the Southern Kingdom of Judah was comprised of more than Benjamin and Judah. There were people of all the tribes in the south.
It all depends on what time period/era we are talking about.
The original split was the Tribe of Judah with the Tribe of Benjamin breaking away from their Israelite cousins.
Later, as you pointed out, some Levites and others also left the Kingdom of Israel and moved to the Kingdom of Judah. All of these people were Israelites, as they were direct genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel and his 12 sons.
But once the Babylonians captured them and took them off to Babylon, it all changed.
When they came back, the people living in the former Kingdom of Judah were a variety of people. Some were original Judahites and other Israelites.
But other people were Edomites (jews), Canaanites (jews), Hittites and others.
By the time of Jesus, the area was under the control of the Roman Empire, and that area was now a province of Rome called Judea.
The Bible, especially the New Testament, cannot really be understood without understanding this history.
That's because the word "jew" was never in the original text in Hebrew or Greek.
It was an English word that was created more than 1,000 years later to describe certain people who (a) were resident in the Roman province of Judea (and thus, "Judeans"), (b) were not genetic descendents of Jacob/Israel (thus were not "Israelites" nor "Judahites"), but (c) pretended that they were.
Also, they practiced Judaism, not Hebrewism (pre-Christianity).
This is why Jesus talks to them and refers to them the way He does in John 8 and Rev 2 & 3.