I'm not so certain that this is as dire as it seems. That's based on going through 2 years of covid in the most locked down city in the world, and learning about biosecurity law etc.
Firstly, in my country's biosecurity law, quarantine has always been an option, the the public health authority is responsible to manage actual epidemics and pandemic outbreaks, etc.
So let's just put aside the natural and appropriate reaction to any government having any authority that overrides personal rights, because we now know how corrupt and abusive they have and can be. Just for a minute.
Consider incarceration of criminals. Does this not deprive the criminals of their individual rights? Sure it does. But through due process of law (when corruption is not the law of the land, but law and order is).
Think about what they actually did with Covid. Historically, democratically elected governments have always had the authority and responsibility to deal with disease that threatens the public well-being. BUT the thing is, this was done through quarantine. Isolation of sick individuals.
With Covid, they flipped this completely on its head. Instead, they isolated all the healthy individuals. Everyone was put into quarantine, NOT because they were sick. In this, at least in my country, the completely violated the law and constitution, where quarantine can only be done to sick people.
Now, having said that, is it likely that a corrupt regime will seek to abuse that power that they have, and which should be legitimately wielded for the service and protection of the People, instead of against them? Sure. Likely.
But where are we today? Why aren't they putting in place laws that enact the power to establish lockdowns? To perpetuate the evil attempts they attempted with Covid? One has to recognize that despite all the narrative noise, we have been winning the war, and they simply cannot do what they want.
I would strongly recommend a deeper, less knee jerk reaction to this law. Far too much, too many of us have become hyper sensitive and over reactive to ANYTHING that we even suspect of being Cabal oppression via govt overreach.
That's perfectly understandable. If we think that our society as a whole, and this includes anons, that we are NOT experiencing various forms of post traumatic stress disorder, well, I think we're not recognizing the war we are in. Covid was the largest, most intense psyop perpetrated on humanity in a very short fame o time. Mass formation psychosis only takes place when unprecedented strains and stresses are generated and then guided to achieve the result.
But they failed. The lockdowns are discredited, by evidence. Their vaccines are steadly being discredited, by evidence. Vax passports died. Millions woke up. The WHO agenda to get nations to sign over their sovereignty failed. Twice.
The flow of the narrative and how little they have been able to accomplish shows that we have been winning the war.
I suspect that this revision by New York is far and away NOT as dire as it first seems. It may be poorly drafted, with flaws and so forth, and maybe attempted power grabs on some level, but compare this with what it would be if they enacted the idea that lockdowns can be used and justified...
Quarantine has been a necessary measure in cases where actual disease runs wild.
I might be wrong; I haven't read the paper in detail. I have glanced through it and read through most of rule 2.13. But I know that the ability to quarantine has been legitimately framed in the past, and I'm not ready to throw my arms up in the air simply because "Oh. My. God. They are saying that they can issue quarantine orders!!!!"
I'm open to getting counter arguments with regards to the details and the actual lawful application of rules in the context of citizen rights, but having lived through ACTUAL 1984-style lockdowns (see the list: no travel more than 3 miles, no work unless work permits and only in govt designated 'essential industries', 1 hour exercise per day, alone, shopping one person per household only 1 day, alone, curfew, etc, etc, etc. etc) 6 times over a two year period (totaling more than 500 days in lockdown isolation), I know real Big Brother lunacy when I see it, and this looks very mild, so far.
I see a LOT of reacting in the comment section, and not a lot of analysis or serious discussion / review.
The problem with ANY quarantine is the power of the organization doing the quarantining- in the United State we operate on a Constitution- this constitution ensures our GOD/CREATOR GIVEN RIGHTS are not violated-
This will be overturned in NY, and God have mercy on any gov asshole that knocks on my door...
The problem with ANY quarantine is the power of the organization doing the quarantining
I agree with this statement.
There needs to be a legitimate authority to quarantine when necessary, but it needs to be balanced with correct procedure, purpose and intent. We saw all of that fly out the window with Covid.
“Public Health” is an illusion. Can you show it to me? Or describe what it looks like? Or tell me where I can find it?
If by “Public Health” we mean aggregated statistics of individual health records then we’ve (again) been hoodwinked into a govt solution to a “public” problem. Paradigm shift where public > individual. Commie wordplay is very clever indeed.
We need to distinguish between abuse of terminology vs. valid proper use of terminology.
Try saying that "public health" is an illusion in countries that experience real serious health problems on a large scale.
If you are saying that the concept of public health is open to abuse, I fully agree. But as a concept itself, its valid. In case you haven't noticed, America is a very sick nation. Rates of obesity, diabetes, myriad other ailments. That's real, not some propaganda. DJT acknowledges that and has promised to address the situation focusing on cause, which is critical imo. (Cabal has fostered this level of unwellness deliberately, in my view.)
I think perhaps you’ve missed my point. Countries are not sick, nor are they healthy. The individual persons living within the boundaries can and will be. Again, public health is not corporeal; it can not be picked-up & held in your hands, nor could you tell me what it looks like so I could go from place to place to look for it. Public health can only be reported on through the aggregation of individual persons health data. Public health merely exists in statistics alone. And when a bureaucracy exploits this data, we get policies that promote the well being of many instead of protecting individualism & liberty.
Thanks for the clarification. But I don't think I've missed it; I think I simply disagree with your perspective.
In my view, a society, a people, a 'population' is much, much more than simply the sum number of individuals. No more than a person's body is simply the aggregate total of individual cells.
Moveover, in my view, saying that 'public health' is not corporeal and therefor does not exist seems like an extremely narrow and myopic perspective. Are emotions not real, because they are not corporeal? ideas? Thoughts? A person's spirit?
And, indeed, the collective state of health of any group or population can be quantifiably measured using numerous indicators.
I mean, are you suggesting that if my next door neighbors - two parents and 5 kids - if 6 of them come down with flu and are throwing up and have fevers etc, that the 'family is not sick' because in the end, they are only individuals who happen to share the same house?
What about dysfunctional families, where chronic psychological problems emerge all over the place, and where their relationships are extremely dysfunctional and troubled?
The only place that I agree with you - roughly - is that when data - including statistical or even fabricated data - are exploited by unscrupulous persons, then this can indeed be damaging to liberty.
But to be frank, and I don't mean this offensively, it seems to me that you are striving to set up reasoning (i.e. 'public health' does not exist) that justifies your conclusion, because if public health was actually a thing worth looking at, you'd have to look a bit deeper at what is going on and where the real problem lies, rather than simply (to my mind superficially) 'bureaucracy' and 'policies' that sacrifice a for b.
I appreciate your assertion and sharing your reasoning, but I think its a lot more complex and nuances than what your saying.
Your comment is pretty offensive. You're implying that I do NOT value freedom or the US constitution. And, you wish ill on me. Why? Because I offered a viewpoint that is different to yours. You're already in a mind camp. Good luck getting out of that one. It's a lot more pernicious than an external gulag.
Unless you are able to discuss points without reacting or wanting to slam the other person because they shared an idea or perceptive you don;t like, well, what's the difference between that and what rabid leftists do?
I do not not wish ill on you or anyone. My apologies if my remark was flippant. Americans have let our government ´creep’ slowly like a cancer into our lives, taking away our freedoms, rights, and even our bodily autonomy, such as the recent illegal actions taken by Kathy Hochul, which is what I was referring to. It’s a slippery slope. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. All the best.
NCSWIC
Just an FYI, don't know if you picked it up in my rather long comment above, but I'm not American and don't live in the US. (although your blessing for a wonderful thanksgiving is still heartily received with thanks!)
I have an open mind with regards to how potentially bad the recent moves in NY were/are, but I was emphasizing that compared with what was shoved on my people during 20/21, it's not as bad as it may seem to some. But yes, the slippery slope was instigated a long time ago. Hopefully, these machinations in NY will come to naught. It certainly seems correct to be paying attention to them.
Perhaps I was just reacting to the OP dropping doomer comments willy-nilly saying "NY is f*cked!" etc.
Apologies if I'm over-elaborating. Either way, a blessed thanksgiving to you, fren! wwg1wga
Looking back at history before flying off the handle at any news is always a good idea in my opinion. Shit, New York City quarantined Typhoid Mary Mallon for 30 years.
Yeah, thanks for the comment. It's the flying off the handle part that I think warrants a lot more concern than the initial report / initiative itself. It may well be that its bad, insidious, and highly destructive, but the knee jerk reactionism... I find that far more troubling, because so many who engage and indulge in it are oblivious to the fact, and are frequent manipulated by the narrative wielders. imo.
I'm not so certain that this is as dire as it seems. That's based on going through 2 years of covid in the most locked down city in the world, and learning about biosecurity law etc.
Firstly, in my country's biosecurity law, quarantine has always been an option, the the public health authority is responsible to manage actual epidemics and pandemic outbreaks, etc.
So let's just put aside the natural and appropriate reaction to any government having any authority that overrides personal rights, because we now know how corrupt and abusive they have and can be. Just for a minute.
Consider incarceration of criminals. Does this not deprive the criminals of their individual rights? Sure it does. But through due process of law (when corruption is not the law of the land, but law and order is).
Think about what they actually did with Covid. Historically, democratically elected governments have always had the authority and responsibility to deal with disease that threatens the public well-being. BUT the thing is, this was done through quarantine. Isolation of sick individuals.
With Covid, they flipped this completely on its head. Instead, they isolated all the healthy individuals. Everyone was put into quarantine, NOT because they were sick. In this, at least in my country, the completely violated the law and constitution, where quarantine can only be done to sick people.
Now, having said that, is it likely that a corrupt regime will seek to abuse that power that they have, and which should be legitimately wielded for the service and protection of the People, instead of against them? Sure. Likely.
But where are we today? Why aren't they putting in place laws that enact the power to establish lockdowns? To perpetuate the evil attempts they attempted with Covid? One has to recognize that despite all the narrative noise, we have been winning the war, and they simply cannot do what they want.
I would strongly recommend a deeper, less knee jerk reaction to this law. Far too much, too many of us have become hyper sensitive and over reactive to ANYTHING that we even suspect of being Cabal oppression via govt overreach.
That's perfectly understandable. If we think that our society as a whole, and this includes anons, that we are NOT experiencing various forms of post traumatic stress disorder, well, I think we're not recognizing the war we are in. Covid was the largest, most intense psyop perpetrated on humanity in a very short fame o time. Mass formation psychosis only takes place when unprecedented strains and stresses are generated and then guided to achieve the result.
But they failed. The lockdowns are discredited, by evidence. Their vaccines are steadly being discredited, by evidence. Vax passports died. Millions woke up. The WHO agenda to get nations to sign over their sovereignty failed. Twice.
The flow of the narrative and how little they have been able to accomplish shows that we have been winning the war.
I suspect that this revision by New York is far and away NOT as dire as it first seems. It may be poorly drafted, with flaws and so forth, and maybe attempted power grabs on some level, but compare this with what it would be if they enacted the idea that lockdowns can be used and justified...
Quarantine has been a necessary measure in cases where actual disease runs wild.
I might be wrong; I haven't read the paper in detail. I have glanced through it and read through most of rule 2.13. But I know that the ability to quarantine has been legitimately framed in the past, and I'm not ready to throw my arms up in the air simply because "Oh. My. God. They are saying that they can issue quarantine orders!!!!"
I'm open to getting counter arguments with regards to the details and the actual lawful application of rules in the context of citizen rights, but having lived through ACTUAL 1984-style lockdowns (see the list: no travel more than 3 miles, no work unless work permits and only in govt designated 'essential industries', 1 hour exercise per day, alone, shopping one person per household only 1 day, alone, curfew, etc, etc, etc. etc) 6 times over a two year period (totaling more than 500 days in lockdown isolation), I know real Big Brother lunacy when I see it, and this looks very mild, so far.
I see a LOT of reacting in the comment section, and not a lot of analysis or serious discussion / review.
The problem with ANY quarantine is the power of the organization doing the quarantining- in the United State we operate on a Constitution- this constitution ensures our GOD/CREATOR GIVEN RIGHTS are not violated- This will be overturned in NY, and God have mercy on any gov asshole that knocks on my door...
I agree with this statement.
There needs to be a legitimate authority to quarantine when necessary, but it needs to be balanced with correct procedure, purpose and intent. We saw all of that fly out the window with Covid.
“Public Health” is an illusion. Can you show it to me? Or describe what it looks like? Or tell me where I can find it?
If by “Public Health” we mean aggregated statistics of individual health records then we’ve (again) been hoodwinked into a govt solution to a “public” problem. Paradigm shift where public > individual. Commie wordplay is very clever indeed.
We need to distinguish between abuse of terminology vs. valid proper use of terminology.
Try saying that "public health" is an illusion in countries that experience real serious health problems on a large scale.
If you are saying that the concept of public health is open to abuse, I fully agree. But as a concept itself, its valid. In case you haven't noticed, America is a very sick nation. Rates of obesity, diabetes, myriad other ailments. That's real, not some propaganda. DJT acknowledges that and has promised to address the situation focusing on cause, which is critical imo. (Cabal has fostered this level of unwellness deliberately, in my view.)
I think perhaps you’ve missed my point. Countries are not sick, nor are they healthy. The individual persons living within the boundaries can and will be. Again, public health is not corporeal; it can not be picked-up & held in your hands, nor could you tell me what it looks like so I could go from place to place to look for it. Public health can only be reported on through the aggregation of individual persons health data. Public health merely exists in statistics alone. And when a bureaucracy exploits this data, we get policies that promote the well being of many instead of protecting individualism & liberty.
Thanks for the clarification. But I don't think I've missed it; I think I simply disagree with your perspective.
In my view, a society, a people, a 'population' is much, much more than simply the sum number of individuals. No more than a person's body is simply the aggregate total of individual cells.
Moveover, in my view, saying that 'public health' is not corporeal and therefor does not exist seems like an extremely narrow and myopic perspective. Are emotions not real, because they are not corporeal? ideas? Thoughts? A person's spirit?
And, indeed, the collective state of health of any group or population can be quantifiably measured using numerous indicators.
I mean, are you suggesting that if my next door neighbors - two parents and 5 kids - if 6 of them come down with flu and are throwing up and have fevers etc, that the 'family is not sick' because in the end, they are only individuals who happen to share the same house?
What about dysfunctional families, where chronic psychological problems emerge all over the place, and where their relationships are extremely dysfunctional and troubled?
The only place that I agree with you - roughly - is that when data - including statistical or even fabricated data - are exploited by unscrupulous persons, then this can indeed be damaging to liberty.
But to be frank, and I don't mean this offensively, it seems to me that you are striving to set up reasoning (i.e. 'public health' does not exist) that justifies your conclusion, because if public health was actually a thing worth looking at, you'd have to look a bit deeper at what is going on and where the real problem lies, rather than simply (to my mind superficially) 'bureaucracy' and 'policies' that sacrifice a for b.
I appreciate your assertion and sharing your reasoning, but I think its a lot more complex and nuances than what your saying.
But happy to move on!
Very mild? This attitude is dangerous to the rest of us who value freedom and the constitution. Have fun at camp!
Your comment is pretty offensive. You're implying that I do NOT value freedom or the US constitution. And, you wish ill on me. Why? Because I offered a viewpoint that is different to yours. You're already in a mind camp. Good luck getting out of that one. It's a lot more pernicious than an external gulag.
Unless you are able to discuss points without reacting or wanting to slam the other person because they shared an idea or perceptive you don;t like, well, what's the difference between that and what rabid leftists do?
I do not not wish ill on you or anyone. My apologies if my remark was flippant. Americans have let our government ´creep’ slowly like a cancer into our lives, taking away our freedoms, rights, and even our bodily autonomy, such as the recent illegal actions taken by Kathy Hochul, which is what I was referring to. It’s a slippery slope. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. All the best. NCSWIC
Thanks for the reply. it is much appreciated.
Just an FYI, don't know if you picked it up in my rather long comment above, but I'm not American and don't live in the US. (although your blessing for a wonderful thanksgiving is still heartily received with thanks!)
I have an open mind with regards to how potentially bad the recent moves in NY were/are, but I was emphasizing that compared with what was shoved on my people during 20/21, it's not as bad as it may seem to some. But yes, the slippery slope was instigated a long time ago. Hopefully, these machinations in NY will come to naught. It certainly seems correct to be paying attention to them.
Perhaps I was just reacting to the OP dropping doomer comments willy-nilly saying "NY is f*cked!" etc.
Apologies if I'm over-elaborating. Either way, a blessed thanksgiving to you, fren! wwg1wga
Looking back at history before flying off the handle at any news is always a good idea in my opinion. Shit, New York City quarantined Typhoid Mary Mallon for 30 years.
Yeah, thanks for the comment. It's the flying off the handle part that I think warrants a lot more concern than the initial report / initiative itself. It may well be that its bad, insidious, and highly destructive, but the knee jerk reactionism... I find that far more troubling, because so many who engage and indulge in it are oblivious to the fact, and are frequent manipulated by the narrative wielders. imo.
NEVER give the "authorities" an inch because lunacy will not be far away.