Wilders is going way overboard on what he's calling for. Maybe taking down mosques and outlawing a religion is ok in the Netherlands but it is not how America works. Otherwise, I applaud someone in Europe is pointing out the immigrant agenda.
Islam is a scheme to invade and conquer the world, disguised as a religon.
ANYTHING calling itself a "religion" that advocates subjugating and murdering people of other religions is not a true religion, but instead a criminal organization.
Does Islam advocate subjugating and murdering infidels? Do its teachings RELIABLY lead to subjugation and murder of Christians and others as the percentage of Muslims increases in a nation?
Yes, absolutely -- including, near the end-point, of moderate Muslims who do not support Jihad (i.e., decent people who happen to have been raised in Islam).
Two suggestions for research into the actual nature of Islam:
I haven’t read the books you suggest here, but a serious question…. If, as you state, as the percentage of muslims increases in a nation, subjugation and murder of Christians reliably occur…. Why then are there over six thousand Christian churches in Iran, for example?
Also, is Mohammed bin Salman a muslim? From the way I understand it, POTUS alerted him to an imminent assassination attempt in NV, for which MbS was thankful enough to then assist POTUS in speaking to other high profile individuals that needed “persuasion” to get off the wrong paths they were pursuing. He also locked up several of the corrupt power players in his country and welcomed POTUS to participate in some meaningful rites (sword dance) in SA.
Does it make more sense perhaps that the radical islamists are the problem? Even the first book you linked doesn’t say “We must defeat Islam”, but rather “We must defeat radical Islam”.
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One final thought… as I recall, there was quite a lot of warring between two Christian ideologies in Ireland, both believing the other should be eradicated, before they were brought to their senses and came together. I have hope that good people of all religions can come together and fight against the evil ones of all religions.
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I can’t speak to what our servicemen and women who were sent to predominantly muslim countries to do battle over there and lost brothers-in-arms and/or were injured themselves harbor as emotions towards muslims in general; my perspective here is, admittedly, non-military and viewing the religious landscape from a 40K view over a historical timeline.
My knee-jerk reaction to Mr Wilder’s desire to mete out collective punishment to all muslims, closing their places of worship, for example, is revulsion. Perhaps it’s because we here in the States who are Christian can certainly imagine the current DS issuing an edict through their puppet Potatus that all churches are to be closed as they deem all Christians as “terrorists”. Just some of my thoughts. MHO.
No, I’m not averse to kicking out illegal aliens who have invaded many countries, but am averse to kicking out individuals who may have been there for generations, living peaceably, and closing their places of worship.
You’re claiming superior knowledge and insight into “the nature and scope of the problem” yet all you’ve done is repeat the blanket statement that they’re all bad. Would you at least be willing to share your thoughts on the points I iterated? I don’t ask for links, sauce, or the like, but just your perspective so that I and others here can be more informed.
A long excerpt: (Percentage numbers are from 2010 or earlier)
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States — Muslim 0.6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.
This is happening in:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
Thank you for providing this information. It’s quite interesting and I’ll definitely delve more into this in the future.
I also looked into the writer, Walid Shoebat, and from what I can tell, in addition to lambasting radical muslims, he also advocates for American muslims who aren’t radical. It seems that, despite his conversion from islam to Christianity, he does NOT feel that all muslims are savages. I’d be interested to hear what he has to say about this post’s topic of Dutch politician Wilder’s call to expel ALL muslims from his country and shutter their mosques.
In the information you provided above, Mr. Shoebat states the following:
“… From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: (Etc) …”
… why is it that there are over six thousand Christian churches in Iran?
Please see the links I provided in my first comment in this post (regarding Christianity in Iran). There are pie charts about the religious makeup of Iranians which show that muslims are well over the 60% threshold that Mr Shoebat claims turn them into genocidal maniacs (he himself claims Iran is 98% muslim as per the data you shared). He states:
“… After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: (etc) …”
If what Mr Shoebat states is true, how can there be ANY Christian churches or jewish synagogues in predominantly muslim countries? I just picked Iran as an example, but look into others.
Finally, if you have any inclination to read the fuller.edu link I provided in an above comment, I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts on it. I scanned it and at first glance it seems well-reasoned, will delve into it again.
Yes, there remains a minority Christian community in Iran, which shrunk after the Shah's ouster but in recent years has rebounded. I agree with you that Iran -- as oppressive as it is to Christians and to the entire general population -- has at least not attempted to eradicate the relatively small number of Christians in the country.
The government guarantees the recognized Christian minorities a number of rights (production and sale of non-halal foods),[citation needed] representation in parliament, special family law etc.[citation needed] According to US-based Barnabas Fund government intrusion, expropriation of property, forced closure and persecution, particularly in the initial years after the Iranian Revolution, have all been documented.[citation needed]
On 2 February 2018, four United Nations human rights experts said that members of the Christian minority in Iran, particularly those who have converted to Christianity, are facing severe discrimination and religious persecution in Iran. They expressed their concerns over treatment of three Iranian Christians imprisoned in Iran.[24]
Iranian Christians tend to be urban, with 50% living in Tehran.[25]
Christianity remains the second-largest non-Muslim minority religion in the country.[26]
A June 2020 online survey found a much smaller percentage of Iranians stating they believe in Islam, with half of those surveyed indicating they had lost their religious faith.[27] The poll, conducted by the Netherlands-based GAMAAN (Group for Analyzing and Measuring Attitudes in Iran), using online polling to provide greater anonymity for respondents, surveyed 50,000 Iranians and found 1.5% identified as Christians.[27][28]
Thank you for responding (and I truly do appreciate the data-based discussion). You were responding as I was responding in another comment. In researching the wiki references, the first one you cited, for overall religious freedom, says that “recognized” Christian communities (not sure what that means) “are relatively free to worship”.
The second reference you cited, #66, sounds particularly interesting and worth looking into further as do some of the other referenced material.
I’m fading fast here, too tired to respond further tonight, Narg, but will delve into this further tomorrow night if I can find time.
.
Reference #65:
“… Are individuals free to practice and express their religious faith or nonbelief in public and private? 0/4
Iran is home to a majority Shiite Muslim population and Sunni Muslim, Baha’i, Christian, and Zoroastrian minorities. The constitution recognizes only Zoroastrians, Jews, and certain Christian communities as non-Muslim religious minorities, and these small groups are relatively free to worship. The regime cracks down on Muslims who are deemed to be at variance with the state ideology and interpretation of Islam.
Sunni Muslims complain that they have been prevented from building mosques in major cities and face difficulty obtaining government jobs. In recent years, there has been increased pressure on the Sufi Muslim order Nematollahi Gonabadi, including destruction of its places of worship and the jailing of some of its members.
The government also subjects some non-Muslim minorities to repressive policies and discrimination, including Baha’is and unrecognized Christian groups. Baha’is are systematically persecuted, sentenced to prison, and banned from access to higher education. In May 2021, the Baha’i International Community reported on multiple raids of Baha’i homes, along with the detention of more than 20 people. Later that month, the Revolutionary Court of Borazjan issued prison sentences against six Baha’i; one defendant received an 11-year sentence for “propaganda activities against the regime” for discussing their faith, while the other five received 12-and-a-half-year sentences for “assisting in propaganda activities.” …”
Wilders is going way overboard on what he's calling for. Maybe taking down mosques and outlawing a religion is ok in the Netherlands but it is not how America works. Otherwise, I applaud someone in Europe is pointing out the immigrant agenda.
Islam is a scheme to invade and conquer the world, disguised as a religon.
ANYTHING calling itself a "religion" that advocates subjugating and murdering people of other religions is not a true religion, but instead a criminal organization.
Does Islam advocate subjugating and murdering infidels? Do its teachings RELIABLY lead to subjugation and murder of Christians and others as the percentage of Muslims increases in a nation?
Yes, absolutely -- including, near the end-point, of moderate Muslims who do not support Jihad (i.e., decent people who happen to have been raised in Islam).
Two suggestions for research into the actual nature of Islam:
They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It by Brigitte Gabriel
Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
I haven’t read the books you suggest here, but a serious question…. If, as you state, as the percentage of muslims increases in a nation, subjugation and murder of Christians reliably occur…. Why then are there over six thousand Christian churches in Iran, for example?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/september/iran-christian-conversions-gamaan-religion-survey.html
.
Also, is Mohammed bin Salman a muslim? From the way I understand it, POTUS alerted him to an imminent assassination attempt in NV, for which MbS was thankful enough to then assist POTUS in speaking to other high profile individuals that needed “persuasion” to get off the wrong paths they were pursuing. He also locked up several of the corrupt power players in his country and welcomed POTUS to participate in some meaningful rites (sword dance) in SA.
Does it make more sense perhaps that the radical islamists are the problem? Even the first book you linked doesn’t say “We must defeat Islam”, but rather “We must defeat radical Islam”.
.
One final thought… as I recall, there was quite a lot of warring between two Christian ideologies in Ireland, both believing the other should be eradicated, before they were brought to their senses and came together. I have hope that good people of all religions can come together and fight against the evil ones of all religions.
.
I can’t speak to what our servicemen and women who were sent to predominantly muslim countries to do battle over there and lost brothers-in-arms and/or were injured themselves harbor as emotions towards muslims in general; my perspective here is, admittedly, non-military and viewing the religious landscape from a 40K view over a historical timeline.
My knee-jerk reaction to Mr Wilder’s desire to mete out collective punishment to all muslims, closing their places of worship, for example, is revulsion. Perhaps it’s because we here in the States who are Christian can certainly imagine the current DS issuing an edict through their puppet Potatus that all churches are to be closed as they deem all Christians as “terrorists”. Just some of my thoughts. MHO.
No, I’m not averse to kicking out illegal aliens who have invaded many countries, but am averse to kicking out individuals who may have been there for generations, living peaceably, and closing their places of worship.
You’re claiming superior knowledge and insight into “the nature and scope of the problem” yet all you’ve done is repeat the blanket statement that they’re all bad. Would you at least be willing to share your thoughts on the points I iterated? I don’t ask for links, sauce, or the like, but just your perspective so that I and others here can be more informed.
https://shoebat.com/2011/07/02/what-to-expect-the-effect-of-muslim-population-growth-on-a-society/
Found that posted by /u/HenryBowman1984 as a comment to https://greatawakening.win/p/17rlw0uOy9/islam-phase-2/
A long excerpt: (Percentage numbers are from 2010 or earlier)
I mentioned to Luminosity ,, it’s really refreshing to read civil communication from anons who may not agree about a certain topic ! Thank you
Thank you for providing this information. It’s quite interesting and I’ll definitely delve more into this in the future.
I also looked into the writer, Walid Shoebat, and from what I can tell, in addition to lambasting radical muslims, he also advocates for American muslims who aren’t radical. It seems that, despite his conversion from islam to Christianity, he does NOT feel that all muslims are savages. I’d be interested to hear what he has to say about this post’s topic of Dutch politician Wilder’s call to expel ALL muslims from his country and shutter their mosques.
.
https://shoebat.com/shoebat-foundation/who-is-walid/
.
Let me just ask again….
In the information you provided above, Mr. Shoebat states the following:
“… From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in: (Etc) …”
… why is it that there are over six thousand Christian churches in Iran?
Please see the links I provided in my first comment in this post (regarding Christianity in Iran). There are pie charts about the religious makeup of Iranians which show that muslims are well over the 60% threshold that Mr Shoebat claims turn them into genocidal maniacs (he himself claims Iran is 98% muslim as per the data you shared). He states:
“… After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in: (etc) …”
If what Mr Shoebat states is true, how can there be ANY Christian churches or jewish synagogues in predominantly muslim countries? I just picked Iran as an example, but look into others.
.
https://www.jta.org/2021/03/05/global/peaceful-existence-jews-in-iran-freely-observe-their-religion-communal-leader-says
.
Finally, if you have any inclination to read the fuller.edu link I provided in an above comment, I’d appreciate hearing your thoughts on it. I scanned it and at first glance it seems well-reasoned, will delve into it again.
Yes, there remains a minority Christian community in Iran, which shrunk after the Shah's ouster but in recent years has rebounded. I agree with you that Iran -- as oppressive as it is to Christians and to the entire general population -- has at least not attempted to eradicate the relatively small number of Christians in the country.
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran#Freedom_of_religion -
and
According to the main Wikipedia article on Iran, the population is over 87 million.
Again from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran#History --
Christianity remains the second-largest non-Muslim minority religion in the country.[26]
Thank you for responding (and I truly do appreciate the data-based discussion). You were responding as I was responding in another comment. In researching the wiki references, the first one you cited, for overall religious freedom, says that “recognized” Christian communities (not sure what that means) “are relatively free to worship”.
The second reference you cited, #66, sounds particularly interesting and worth looking into further as do some of the other referenced material.
I’m fading fast here, too tired to respond further tonight, Narg, but will delve into this further tomorrow night if I can find time.
.
Reference #65:
“… Are individuals free to practice and express their religious faith or nonbelief in public and private? 0/4
Iran is home to a majority Shiite Muslim population and Sunni Muslim, Baha’i, Christian, and Zoroastrian minorities. The constitution recognizes only Zoroastrians, Jews, and certain Christian communities as non-Muslim religious minorities, and these small groups are relatively free to worship. The regime cracks down on Muslims who are deemed to be at variance with the state ideology and interpretation of Islam.
Sunni Muslims complain that they have been prevented from building mosques in major cities and face difficulty obtaining government jobs. In recent years, there has been increased pressure on the Sufi Muslim order Nematollahi Gonabadi, including destruction of its places of worship and the jailing of some of its members.
The government also subjects some non-Muslim minorities to repressive policies and discrimination, including Baha’is and unrecognized Christian groups. Baha’is are systematically persecuted, sentenced to prison, and banned from access to higher education. In May 2021, the Baha’i International Community reported on multiple raids of Baha’i homes, along with the detention of more than 20 people. Later that month, the Revolutionary Court of Borazjan issued prison sentences against six Baha’i; one defendant received an 11-year sentence for “propaganda activities against the regime” for discussing their faith, while the other five received 12-and-a-half-year sentences for “assisting in propaganda activities.” …”