Fair warning: This is an obnoxiously long post, sorry about that. I'm going to play devil's advocate here, because I'm seeing many Anons engaging in arguments with normies over vaccines, and, frankly, they aren't doing too well at it.
I want to clarify that I'm not arguing in favor of the vaccines. I'm trying to show some of the arguing points that Anons are struggling with. So if anyone reading this is going to talk to their normie friends and relatives about the dangers of vaccines, they'll have an idea of the pushback they're going to receive. Then they'll be able to come up with responses to that before they engage with normies.
-Toxicity is dose-related. The amounts of those otherwise "dangerous" chemicals found in vaccines are not high enough to cause harm.
-Combined vaccines like VAXELIS are safer than giving the child single vaccines for each of those diseases coveredx. The ingredients thought to be dangerous in vaccines are the preservatives. Combo vaxes use the same amount of preservatives found in just one of those single vaccines. So if the child were to get single vaccines for all those diseases covered in the combo vax, they would get 6x the amount of preservatives in comparison to the combo vax.
-Mercury, the most commonly referenced "toxic" ingredient in vaccines, is no longer found in any of the vaccines formulated for children. It was phased out many years ago.
-Correlation does not equal causation. It's a logical fallacy. It means that just because Event A (Autism in this case) happened after Event V (Vaccines in this case) does not mean Event A caused Event V.
-The argument is that autism rates increased dramatically after the new pediatric vaccine schedule that was introduced in the late 90s or early 00s (I forget which), so the vaccines caused those increased cases.
This is an example of "correlation does not equal causation" I mentioned earlier. Normies will point out that the DSM (the manual that the medical field uses for diagnosing mental illnesses) was updated around the same time as the increased vaccine schedule was initiated. The new DSM eliminated several separate diagnoses, like Asperger's, and made the new "autism spectrum" an umbrella term that absorbed all the symptoms found in those separate diagnoses. So autism cases increased because the children who would have previously been diagnosed as one of those eliminated diagnoses, like Aspergers, are now diagnosed with autism. Notice that cases of mild mental retardation fell at the same time autism cases rose. Does this mean that the vaccines decrease rates of mental retardation? No, it means that all those children that were formerly diagnosed as mildly mentally retarded are now diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum.
-The new DSM also resulted in the medical field, and elementary teachers to an extent, becoming more aware of autism and they started actively looking for it. Increased observance naturally leads to an increase in cases found.
Ok, I think that's enough for now. Please remember I was playing devil's advocate here hoping to help Anons make better arguments against vaccines to normies.
These are the exact arguments I've encountered when talking about vaccines to our daughters.
They don't want to hear it and will argue with me when I bring it up.
I'm making a little headway with one son in law, though, He's starting to see the light about vaccines and even POTUS Trump. I keep praying about this.
"...The ingredients thought to be dangerous in vaccines are the preservatives..." - Not completely true. Aluminum is in vaccines as an adjuvant, not a preservative. Aluminum is there specifically to cause an increased immune response from the injection. Dr. Christopher Exley did some interesting research into aluminum in vaccines, and was professionally destroyed for suggesting the possible danger of these products.
"-Mercury, the most commonly referenced "toxic" ingredient in vaccines, is no longer found in any of the vaccines formulated for children. It was phased out many years ago." - Last time I checked, Mercury is still in the standard influenza vaccine in the US, although I'm not sure if children would be given same product as adults. For some reason they were able to take it out of the European flu vaccines, but not the American version. Weird. I have no doubt some doctors would give children the adult vaccine if they didn't have the childhood version available. Also, Mercury is used in the production of many of these products. It is supposed to be removed, but do you really trust these people to get that right?
Regarding correlation versus causation: The vaccine companies refuse to do double blind, placebo controlled studies of their products prior to licensure. This type of study is the only way to prove causation. They should give half the group the actual product, and half the group an inert substance. Their favorite trick is to use a different vaccine as the "control". They don't really assess safety of the new product, they just compare it to the safety of the other product. Then once they get the new product FDA approved, they claim they can't do a double-blind placebo-controlled study because it would be unethical to deny any child access to their life-saving product.
Aaron Siri does some amazing video about vaccines:
I completely understand. I think sometimes it is a better idea to just not engage.
But everyone doesn't have the same opinion on that and are insistent on having arguments about it. So hopefully those people can at least be better prepared if they absolutely have to argue with people about it.
Um, no. Nothing has been pulled out from under my feet. And I'm not looking to have my mind changed on the matter. I don't like or trust them, either.
All I'm doing is trying to help those who insist on arguing make better arguments.
And yes, you had already told me that there was no need to argue about it. But sadly, you're not in control over what everyone else does, and if people want to argue about it, they will. And I just want them to be better prepared when they do.
There's other cases and reports, but this one will work. I know people who's children after vaccines experienced all kinds of problems. Personally, I have no experience except for my own flu vaccine back in 1993. Took flu shot, sicker than a dog that year and almost flunk school.
Fair warning: This is an obnoxiously long post, sorry about that. I'm going to play devil's advocate here, because I'm seeing many Anons engaging in arguments with normies over vaccines, and, frankly, they aren't doing too well at it.
I want to clarify that I'm not arguing in favor of the vaccines. I'm trying to show some of the arguing points that Anons are struggling with. So if anyone reading this is going to talk to their normie friends and relatives about the dangers of vaccines, they'll have an idea of the pushback they're going to receive. Then they'll be able to come up with responses to that before they engage with normies.
-Toxicity is dose-related. The amounts of those otherwise "dangerous" chemicals found in vaccines are not high enough to cause harm.
-Combined vaccines like VAXELIS are safer than giving the child single vaccines for each of those diseases coveredx. The ingredients thought to be dangerous in vaccines are the preservatives. Combo vaxes use the same amount of preservatives found in just one of those single vaccines. So if the child were to get single vaccines for all those diseases covered in the combo vax, they would get 6x the amount of preservatives in comparison to the combo vax.
-Mercury, the most commonly referenced "toxic" ingredient in vaccines, is no longer found in any of the vaccines formulated for children. It was phased out many years ago.
-Correlation does not equal causation. It's a logical fallacy. It means that just because Event A (Autism in this case) happened after Event V (Vaccines in this case) does not mean Event A caused Event V.
-The argument is that autism rates increased dramatically after the new pediatric vaccine schedule that was introduced in the late 90s or early 00s (I forget which), so the vaccines caused those increased cases.
This is an example of "correlation does not equal causation" I mentioned earlier. Normies will point out that the DSM (the manual that the medical field uses for diagnosing mental illnesses) was updated around the same time as the increased vaccine schedule was initiated. The new DSM eliminated several separate diagnoses, like Asperger's, and made the new "autism spectrum" an umbrella term that absorbed all the symptoms found in those separate diagnoses. So autism cases increased because the children who would have previously been diagnosed as one of those eliminated diagnoses, like Aspergers, are now diagnosed with autism. Notice that cases of mild mental retardation fell at the same time autism cases rose. Does this mean that the vaccines decrease rates of mental retardation? No, it means that all those children that were formerly diagnosed as mildly mentally retarded are now diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum.
-The new DSM also resulted in the medical field, and elementary teachers to an extent, becoming more aware of autism and they started actively looking for it. Increased observance naturally leads to an increase in cases found.
Ok, I think that's enough for now. Please remember I was playing devil's advocate here hoping to help Anons make better arguments against vaccines to normies.
These are the exact arguments I've encountered when talking about vaccines to our daughters.
They don't want to hear it and will argue with me when I bring it up.
I'm making a little headway with one son in law, though, He's starting to see the light about vaccines and even POTUS Trump. I keep praying about this.
A FEW THOUGHTS ABOUT YOUR POST
"...The ingredients thought to be dangerous in vaccines are the preservatives..." - Not completely true. Aluminum is in vaccines as an adjuvant, not a preservative. Aluminum is there specifically to cause an increased immune response from the injection. Dr. Christopher Exley did some interesting research into aluminum in vaccines, and was professionally destroyed for suggesting the possible danger of these products.
"-Mercury, the most commonly referenced "toxic" ingredient in vaccines, is no longer found in any of the vaccines formulated for children. It was phased out many years ago." - Last time I checked, Mercury is still in the standard influenza vaccine in the US, although I'm not sure if children would be given same product as adults. For some reason they were able to take it out of the European flu vaccines, but not the American version. Weird. I have no doubt some doctors would give children the adult vaccine if they didn't have the childhood version available. Also, Mercury is used in the production of many of these products. It is supposed to be removed, but do you really trust these people to get that right?
Regarding correlation versus causation: The vaccine companies refuse to do double blind, placebo controlled studies of their products prior to licensure. This type of study is the only way to prove causation. They should give half the group the actual product, and half the group an inert substance. Their favorite trick is to use a different vaccine as the "control". They don't really assess safety of the new product, they just compare it to the safety of the other product. Then once they get the new product FDA approved, they claim they can't do a double-blind placebo-controlled study because it would be unethical to deny any child access to their life-saving product.
Aaron Siri does some amazing video about vaccines:
https://thehighwire.com/ark-videos/the-informed-consent-imperative-aaron-siri-testifies/
PROTECTING VACCINE EXEMPTIONS WITH ICAN LEAD ATTORNEY AARON SIRI
Thanks for the post! This will really help others make better arguments! 👍
Yeah, these seem to be the main talking points of pro-vaccine people.
I was hoping that if I could get people aware of them, they could prepare a response in advance and make better arguments.
It's a helpful list of arguments...thanks for posting.
I completely understand. I think sometimes it is a better idea to just not engage.
But everyone doesn't have the same opinion on that and are insistent on having arguments about it. So hopefully those people can at least be better prepared if they absolutely have to argue with people about it.
Thanks for the response.
Um, no. Nothing has been pulled out from under my feet. And I'm not looking to have my mind changed on the matter. I don't like or trust them, either.
All I'm doing is trying to help those who insist on arguing make better arguments.
And yes, you had already told me that there was no need to argue about it. But sadly, you're not in control over what everyone else does, and if people want to argue about it, they will. And I just want them to be better prepared when they do.
✌️
That's a great argument. My argument is like this.
https://kirschsubstack.com/p/former-major-city-police-detective
There's other cases and reports, but this one will work. I know people who's children after vaccines experienced all kinds of problems. Personally, I have no experience except for my own flu vaccine back in 1993. Took flu shot, sicker than a dog that year and almost flunk school.
Thanks for the link!