Oh man, what a great read (the back and forth I the comments were great too). I’m glad folks are open to discussing the Christian’s Gods omniscience - the character it would invoke otherwise lacks greatly when taken at face value, a huge early red pill for me - but I can’t help but think these conversations only exist to provide the God of the text some way of saving face. Thats my obviously completely cynical take on it, though.
I still Dr Heiser there does a LOT of water carrying in this regard, as pointed out by other commentators.
God doesn’t need to save face, He’s the creator of the universe. And I get people thinking he’s carrying water, but honestly I think his points are valid here and make sense to me. But I guess we’ll see in the end for sure. My faith in the Bible comes from the insane amount of evidence for the resurrection, Heiser is trying to explain the unknowable which is difficult but I think his explanation is best, but the resurrection can be known and it’s what my faith is based on
Gotcha. I'll still contend (glibly) that the necessity for God to sacrifice himself to himself in order to create a loophole for a state of the world he put in motion and he knew would come to pass, is odd.
BUT, it is Easter weekend for you, and I respect that, and hope you and your family celebrate and have a great time!
See I don’t think He 100% knew what was going to pass. What He did know was that the end result of creating free will human beings was good, and us going through this life is a way to have us with Him forever. God didn’t sacrifice Himself to Himself, but sacrificed Himself FOR us. The sacrifice is to cover the sins we have committed, so we can be with Him for eternity (otherwise our imperfect selves would not be fit to be with Him, there’s a lot more theology behind that). I know it seems odd but it does make sense, at least to me. Thank you for the kind words and I’m looking forward to Easter, I hope you have some time with your family too if you can! God bless :)
Also read this for more explanation, I think Heiser aligns with my beliefs here: https://drmsh.com/predestination-and-free-will-a-summary-of-the-naked-bibles-position/
Oh man, what a great read (the back and forth I the comments were great too). I’m glad folks are open to discussing the Christian’s Gods omniscience - the character it would invoke otherwise lacks greatly when taken at face value, a huge early red pill for me - but I can’t help but think these conversations only exist to provide the God of the text some way of saving face. Thats my obviously completely cynical take on it, though.
I still Dr Heiser there does a LOT of water carrying in this regard, as pointed out by other commentators.
God doesn’t need to save face, He’s the creator of the universe. And I get people thinking he’s carrying water, but honestly I think his points are valid here and make sense to me. But I guess we’ll see in the end for sure. My faith in the Bible comes from the insane amount of evidence for the resurrection, Heiser is trying to explain the unknowable which is difficult but I think his explanation is best, but the resurrection can be known and it’s what my faith is based on
Gotcha. I'll still contend (glibly) that the necessity for God to sacrifice himself to himself in order to create a loophole for a state of the world he put in motion and he knew would come to pass, is odd.
BUT, it is Easter weekend for you, and I respect that, and hope you and your family celebrate and have a great time!
See I don’t think He 100% knew what was going to pass. What He did know was that the end result of creating free will human beings was good, and us going through this life is a way to have us with Him forever. God didn’t sacrifice Himself to Himself, but sacrificed Himself FOR us. The sacrifice is to cover the sins we have committed, so we can be with Him for eternity (otherwise our imperfect selves would not be fit to be with Him, there’s a lot more theology behind that). I know it seems odd but it does make sense, at least to me. Thank you for the kind words and I’m looking forward to Easter, I hope you have some time with your family too if you can! God bless :)