Welcome to General Chat - GAW Community Area
This General Chat area started off as a place for people to talk about things that are off topic, however it has quickly evolved into a community and has become an integral part of the GAW experience for many of us.
Based on its evolving needs and plenty of user feedback, we are trying to bring some order and institute some rules. Please make sure you read these rules and participate in the spirit of this community.
Rules for General Chat
-
Be respectful to each other. This is of utmost importance, and comments may be removed if deemed not respectful.
-
Avoid long drawn out arguments. This should be a place to relax, not to waste your time needlessly.
-
Personal anecdotes, puzzles, cute pics/clips - everything welcome
-
Please do not spam at the top level. If you have a lot to post each day, try and post them all together in one top level comment
-
Try keep things light. If you are bringing in deep stuff, try not to go overboard.
-
Things that are clearly on-topic for this board should be posted as a separate post and not here (except if you are new and still getting the feel of this place)
-
If you find people violating these rules, deport them rather than start a argument here.
-
Feel free to give feedback as these rules are expected to keep evolving
In short, imagine this thread to be a local community hall where we all gather and chat daily. Please be respectful to others in the same way
I haven't been able to convince myself that sexual act is the temptation that Satan got Adam and Eve to indulge in, because God already blessed his creations with "Go forth and multiply" and you cannot multiply without sex.
I strongly believe that the Original Sin is the sex with the Devil, and Sin refers to the contamination of the blood line because of this. This bloodline is the origin of the 13 blood lines that control the "Cabal" and is the root cause of all our suffering.
What Jesus taught us was to overcome this "Sin" of the bloodline - by showing the reason why this bloodline is evil - by exposing for instance how they use usury to enslave people. If you accept Jesus as your saviour and Lord and follow his teachings, you will effectively free yourself from the shackles of the "bloodlines" (Cabal).
There is a lot of other evidence that we can bring to bear to the idea that Lucifer tempted Eve into a sexual union.
One aspect is to run an analysis on the fruit itself: was it a literal fruit? Symbolic?
Another is an examination of the trees in the garden, the Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What might they symbolize?
Another aspect is the idea of why on earth God would put the fruit in the Garden in the first place.
Then you have the historical reality, of how sex, which should be the most holy and previous act, became so degraded and has been used by evil to corrupt people for millenia.
The metaphor of 'eating' as used in the books of Solomon, etc.
There is a lot more, as well, because it is really only in an overall comprehensive interpretation of scripture that this interpretation makes sense.
On another note, the blessing that God gave Adam, to 1) be fruitful 2) multiply and 3) subdue the earth and establish governance over it is a formula encoding the blueprint by which Adam (and humanity) should fulfill the purpose of creation.
When is a tree 'fruitful'? When it is mature. What is fruit God is referring to? It is the maturing of love, the capacity to love as God loves. So the 1t blessing can be seen as first of all, maturing to become "perfect as your heavenly father is perfect". Second, multiply. If a man perfected in God's love were to unite with a woman perfected in God's love and form a family, the children would already be born with a direct and full connection to God's love, as god would be 100% present in the act of sexual union. Such a family, multiplied through a clan, society, to form nations and the world, would be true family under God. The third blessing is to then engage with the creation from the position of being completed united with God's love, loving and caring for creation with God's heart.
The idea of the fall as the sexual union begins to take more significance in that it was engaged 'out of the proper order'. In other words, neither Adam nor Eve grew to complete maturity and oneness with God, because the period for them to do this required their unchanging faith in the commandment "not to eat the fruit'.
If they fulfilled the first blessing, then the need for the commandment would have evaporated when God blessed them as man and wife to engage in sexual union and form a family under his blessing.
There is no record in scripture of God ever blessing the union of Adam and Eve. in fact, they produced offspring outside of the Garden, AFTER they fell.
All that said, I strongly agree that the issue of bloodlines and lineage and the spiritual dimensions of these is key to the entire providence of salvation.
Anything in the scripture that gives a direct hint that God expected or was waiting for or made anything conditional on Adam and Eve "maturing" in any particular way? Nothing comes to my mind ...
Good question. Well, there are a few elements here, I think.
Firstly, ultimately, we need to grasp that truth has both an internal dimension and an external dimension, just like the cosmos and just like the human being. Religious pursuit (i.e. via scripture and teachings) is how God has been revealing internal (spiritual) truth, and science research is how God has been revealing external (material) truth.
Today we live in a situation where the external truth has been revealed to an off-the-charts level. Whereas our last significant spiritual update was 2000 years ago.
So, in fathoming the truth behind scripture, we also have to apply some of our external knowledge and understanding, including logic.
Looking at every single living creature that God created, every single thing grows to maturity through a growth process that takes time. Everything. And by and large everything follows a pattern: being conceived (or sprouting, eg), developing rudimentary and basic functions, a flourish of growth, then a maturing or ripening, leading to full completion of the growth cycle.
When we consider this, it is completely logical to posit that God created Adam and Eve to grow from being born, through basic development (childhood), growth spurt, then maturing to full adulthood (just like Jesus).
When the scripture says God created or shaped Adam from the dust of the earth, then breathed the spirit into him, its easy to understand this as a metaphorical description of God creating, over time, the human form, and then, at the right time, breathing His spirit into it.
The idea here is that Adam and Eve were born and had to grow, just like every human being including Jesus. But the difference is, before Adam and Eve, no one had God's spirit. They were 'dust' (aka material without the spirit or soul).
In scripture, we also read that Jesus perfected himself through his sufferings. This is direct evidence that although Jesus was born sinless, he was not born 'perfect' or fully mature, [perfected here meaning the development process being fully complete. Jesus himself had to grow and mature physically, but also spiritually, we find.
Also, the fact that Adam and Eve could fall (death meaning becoming separated from God and outside of the realm of God's lifegiving governance) directly implies that they were immature and not complete. If someone who was complete and perfected, aka perfectly good, could fall, this implies God himself could fall, and this we know is impossible.
The fact that they fell and were given guidance meant to deter them from making a fatal mistake shows that they were immature, still capable of deviating from the path of truth.
So in this case, I think that application of logic and understanding of God's entire created world helps us to decipher the meaning behind the symbols and story in Genesis. The scripture itself, however, is very rudimentary, and the fact that the meaning of the Eden story and the 'fruit' has been argued and debated and led to some strange interpretations (it was an apply! No, it was a pineapple!) over millenia is evidence that we have needed to mature ourselves (internally and externally) to get to the point where we could grasp its real significance. I mean, that's my opinion.
We can see from the entire universe that God's own nature has a mathematical aspect to it. The beauty and harmony of mathematics is an expression of God's own harmonious nature.
Another aspect about God expecting or waiting on a level of maturity can be seen in the fact that the providence of salvation has taken time. Why did God wait 2 thousand biblical years before calling Abraham? Why did God wait 2000 years after Abraham before sending Jesus? Logically, we can understand that there is some process that involves time here.
Sometimes I think that the Q drops themselves are almost a symbolic version of scripture. in Scripture, God has made 'drops' that indicate a much larger overall 'map' but sometimes it is only understood later (future proves past), or after certain events have happened.
for me, personally, considering the overall nature of providence as revealed through scripture, I find the view that Adam and Eve fell during a period of immaturity to make the most sense.