With "no fault" divorce, the party that wants the marriage to continue based on legal and social contract, even willingness to solve all problems, is kicked off the bus. No rights! The party wanting the "no fault" divorce has all the leverage: Like "I divorce you" said three times.
But how many "no fault" could be a cover up for I need to leave his abusive ass but cannot admit what his done because society thinks his "a good bloke"?
I've seen too many women abused by their husbands. It's why I always called marriage *a piece of paper. Only married because my husband was old school.
A certificate doesn't guarantee you love. Sometimes it locks you into a nightmare.
"But how many "no fault" could be a cover up for I need to leave his abusive ass [...]?"
That's an excellent question. How do you think it should be solved while at the same time removing the artificially created financial incentive for man OR woman to lie?
⬆️ this is an important issue for women to figure out bc it's causing younger men to avoid marriage, which in turn is detrimental to women.
Abuse of any kind is not love. If the abuse would've been reported/recorded, do you think it would've prevented future victims? Even one?
If yes then it should've been recorded/reported.
Leaving for no reason is harsh but sure go for it… I'm just saying that there should be NO financial incentive whatsoever. Stay at home dad falls in love with the nanny and wants to run away with her. Fine. "Irreconcilable differences" on the divorce papers, but he doesn't get the house, car, or property that his successful wife bought with her income. The elephant in the room:>>>it might suck to give up the plush lifestyle, but that comes with the territory if you want to leave that provider.
Never in history has marriage been so fraught with financial ruin (for man or woman) as it has been in the last 50 years.
*recorded/reported is also a problem.
It's suspected 40% of police are involved in domestic violence too.
And unfortunately convid lockdowns in Australia and public footage shows it must not be far from true.
Unfortunately life seems to have someone winning at another's expense and someone losing.
Doesn't matter what we seem to design someone loses out.
Agreed u/Maccachook1
The great news is that as the Fourth Turning concludes, society's values and attitudes toward each other are going to radically improve. I think people will see the wisdom in some of our ancestors' traditions and ways. Trad Wives for the win!
Disagree, the problem isn't the "no fault divorce", it's the degeneration of society, women getting most of the assets and full custody, etc. Most of them use it as a way making a quick buck.
The no divorce wouldn't be a problem if the assets were split right down the income levels.
Saw it first hand when my parents divorced in the 80’s, it wasn’t common at the time in Ireland, my mother got everything, even though she was cheating on my father with my now stepfather.
My father was no angel (alcoholism was very common in Irish men back then), but courts / law was stacked against him. My mother never worked a day in her life in a real job.
Us kids were used as leverage. She got everything including us kids, which meant maintenance payments, which were certainly not spent on us.
We lucked out with our stepfather, he raised us, our mother was lazy, mean and neglectful. Most of us abandoned ship at 18. Not a great childhood, but not a bad one either.
I’m not bitter by the way, it taught me to love and respect my own family. It was a good life lesson. Everything I have I earned.
Both men worked their asses off for her, I often wonder why. Life is strange.
And unfortunately we all have stories showing it's not fair either way.
I have an older friend who was married to a drunk who beatened her.
She had family if I recall correctly throw his drunk ass on a one way ticket train.
She remarried and he loved her greatly. (Eventually passed from Alzheimer's unfortunately / medical negligence during convid).
People shouldn't have to stay locked into abuse
"People shouldn't have to stay locked into abuse."
I completely agree! My position is not that one spouse should be able to trap another, but rather that there should be zero financial incentive for a spouse to lie to get out of a marriage.
The problem is that nobody wants to give up their standard of living for the sake of "escaping", and instead want to have it both ways. That's where the hypocrisy lies. That's where the financial incentive to lie and leave a spouse for a lover while taking half of their assets/income is real and ever present in divorce courts today under the moniker "irreconcilable differences."
Those who claim abuse should get proof and nail those assholes to the wall in the courts.
u/historyisyourfriend3
Ya.. notice I said the end of "no-fault" divorce was coming… Not "divorce" itself.
No fault divorce aids/abets the degeneracy in society. I.e. incentivizes divorce for transient reasons or no reason at all.
Laws such as no-fault divorce incentivize the very societal degeneration you speak of. You put the law in place, it now becomes a lucrative exit strategy. Take the law away, lucrative loophole exit strategy is gone.
The bad law that incentivizes poor societal behavior call is the problem. Why else would Democrats have pushed for it?
Cause-and-effect
The degeneracy of society started when consumerism and convenience became the norm. All of the sudden, people didn't have any more patience or moral vitues. Everything turned into instant gratification and carnal pleasures. Love was replaced with sex and God became the dollar. This is the starting point of the destruction of the family unit.
The empowered feminism movement played a very big part by brainwashing a lot of women that disrespecting your man is viewed as empowerment. At the same time, it brainwashed most of the men into thinking that having standards when it comes to women is sexist. Basically feminism gave women the cart blanche to have 0 accountability and turned most of them into toxic messes.
Social media completely warped the reality for these women as well. Now, all of the sudden, if you are a decent looking woman, and have an IG profile you will have hundreds of simps telling you how pretty you are. They're also bombarded with message about "soul mates" and not settling. I've personally witnessed how 3 families who were married for 20+ years went to shit, the moment the wives opened social media profiles. Attention for them is like crack.
You can enact all the laws you want, but just like corporations they will simply find a creative way of breaking them. There has been a rise in women faking injuries, filing false rape and sexual assault allegations, etc. The intended law might actually increase the numbers of these false reports. Do not underestimate how crazy women can become when they have their mind fixated on something.
On the flipside, the male testosterone has been dropping off a cliff as well. How do you imagine a woman to be committed and sexually attracted to a male, when the average Joe has the testosterone levels of a 12 year in his 30's and 40's.
I'm also not a fan of governments dictating on how people should live their lives. The let's ban no fault divorces, so that families stay together is the right wing equivalent of let's ban the guns to avoid crime.
As a sidenote: that is a very blue pilled take on "Democrats". Trump and Flynn used to be democrats. So was JFK, RFK, JFK Jr., and yet they are regarded as heroes over here. Maybe it's not the democrats, but the deep state that creates these problems. Or have you already forgotten how the Rs where shilling for the corporation because "muh, free markets" while they were destroying our communites and our way of life turning your average American into a lazy consumerist with the patience of a 5 year old. Q said on multiple occasions that this isn't a R vs D issue.
Government DID intervene in 1969 to essentially make marriage a "non-binding" contract for the purpose of weakening the institution of marriage. (Get it?)
Before that there were fewer problems.
This allowed one party to essentially say "I divorce you" 3 times and materially harm/ruin the life of the other party financially and otherwise.
When in history was it ever so common for a man to face financial ruin because of the divorce?
Enter "no-fault divorce."
no-Fault is fine IF it's:
"Leave a marriage if you want, but don't expect to leave with anything from that marriage besides your personal belongings and your own income/savings." Anything else is government assisted robbery.
With "no fault" divorce, the party that wants the marriage to continue based on legal and social contract, even willingness to solve all problems, is kicked off the bus. No rights! The party wanting the "no fault" divorce has all the leverage: Like "I divorce you" said three times.
But how many "no fault" could be a cover up for I need to leave his abusive ass but cannot admit what his done because society thinks his "a good bloke"? I've seen too many women abused by their husbands. It's why I always called marriage *a piece of paper. Only married because my husband was old school. A certificate doesn't guarantee you love. Sometimes it locks you into a nightmare.
That's an excellent question. How do you think it should be solved while at the same time removing the artificially created financial incentive for man OR woman to lie?
⬆️ this is an important issue for women to figure out bc it's causing younger men to avoid marriage, which in turn is detrimental to women.
Abuse of any kind is not love. If the abuse would've been reported/recorded, do you think it would've prevented future victims? Even one?
If yes then it should've been recorded/reported.
Leaving for no reason is harsh but sure go for it… I'm just saying that there should be NO financial incentive whatsoever. Stay at home dad falls in love with the nanny and wants to run away with her. Fine. "Irreconcilable differences" on the divorce papers, but he doesn't get the house, car, or property that his successful wife bought with her income.
The elephant in the room: >>>it might suck to give up the plush lifestyle, but that comes with the territory if you want to leave that provider.
Never in history has marriage been so fraught with financial ruin (for man or woman) as it has been in the last 50 years.
*recorded/reported is also a problem. It's suspected 40% of police are involved in domestic violence too. And unfortunately convid lockdowns in Australia and public footage shows it must not be far from true. Unfortunately life seems to have someone winning at another's expense and someone losing. Doesn't matter what we seem to design someone loses out.
Agreed u/Maccachook1
The great news is that as the Fourth Turning concludes, society's values and attitudes toward each other are going to radically improve. I think people will see the wisdom in some of our ancestors' traditions and ways.
Trad Wives for the win!
Disagree, the problem isn't the "no fault divorce", it's the degeneration of society, women getting most of the assets and full custody, etc. Most of them use it as a way making a quick buck.
The no divorce wouldn't be a problem if the assets were split right down the income levels.
Saw it first hand when my parents divorced in the 80’s, it wasn’t common at the time in Ireland, my mother got everything, even though she was cheating on my father with my now stepfather.
My father was no angel (alcoholism was very common in Irish men back then), but courts / law was stacked against him. My mother never worked a day in her life in a real job.
Us kids were used as leverage. She got everything including us kids, which meant maintenance payments, which were certainly not spent on us.
We lucked out with our stepfather, he raised us, our mother was lazy, mean and neglectful. Most of us abandoned ship at 18. Not a great childhood, but not a bad one either.
I’m not bitter by the way, it taught me to love and respect my own family. It was a good life lesson. Everything I have I earned.
Both men worked their asses off for her, I often wonder why. Life is strange.
And unfortunately we all have stories showing it's not fair either way. I have an older friend who was married to a drunk who beatened her. She had family if I recall correctly throw his drunk ass on a one way ticket train. She remarried and he loved her greatly. (Eventually passed from Alzheimer's unfortunately / medical negligence during convid). People shouldn't have to stay locked into abuse
u/Maccachook1
I completely agree! My position is not that one spouse should be able to trap another, but rather that there should be zero financial incentive for a spouse to lie to get out of a marriage.
The problem is that nobody wants to give up their standard of living for the sake of "escaping", and instead want to have it both ways. That's where the hypocrisy lies. That's where the financial incentive to lie and leave a spouse for a lover while taking half of their assets/income is real and ever present in divorce courts today under the moniker "irreconcilable differences."
Those who claim abuse should get proof and nail those assholes to the wall in the courts.
u/historyisyourfriend3
Ya.. notice I said the end of "no-fault" divorce was coming… Not "divorce" itself.
No fault divorce aids/abets the degeneracy in society. I.e. incentivizes divorce for transient reasons or no reason at all.
Laws such as no-fault divorce incentivize the very societal degeneration you speak of. You put the law in place, it now becomes a lucrative exit strategy. Take the law away, lucrative loophole exit strategy is gone.
The bad law that incentivizes poor societal behavior call is the problem. Why else would Democrats have pushed for it? Cause-and-effect
I'm sorry, but you're wrong on this.
The degeneracy of society started when consumerism and convenience became the norm. All of the sudden, people didn't have any more patience or moral vitues. Everything turned into instant gratification and carnal pleasures. Love was replaced with sex and God became the dollar. This is the starting point of the destruction of the family unit.
The empowered feminism movement played a very big part by brainwashing a lot of women that disrespecting your man is viewed as empowerment. At the same time, it brainwashed most of the men into thinking that having standards when it comes to women is sexist. Basically feminism gave women the cart blanche to have 0 accountability and turned most of them into toxic messes.
Social media completely warped the reality for these women as well. Now, all of the sudden, if you are a decent looking woman, and have an IG profile you will have hundreds of simps telling you how pretty you are. They're also bombarded with message about "soul mates" and not settling. I've personally witnessed how 3 families who were married for 20+ years went to shit, the moment the wives opened social media profiles. Attention for them is like crack.
You can enact all the laws you want, but just like corporations they will simply find a creative way of breaking them. There has been a rise in women faking injuries, filing false rape and sexual assault allegations, etc. The intended law might actually increase the numbers of these false reports. Do not underestimate how crazy women can become when they have their mind fixated on something.
On the flipside, the male testosterone has been dropping off a cliff as well. How do you imagine a woman to be committed and sexually attracted to a male, when the average Joe has the testosterone levels of a 12 year in his 30's and 40's.
I'm also not a fan of governments dictating on how people should live their lives. The let's ban no fault divorces, so that families stay together is the right wing equivalent of let's ban the guns to avoid crime.
As a sidenote: that is a very blue pilled take on "Democrats". Trump and Flynn used to be democrats. So was JFK, RFK, JFK Jr., and yet they are regarded as heroes over here. Maybe it's not the democrats, but the deep state that creates these problems. Or have you already forgotten how the Rs where shilling for the corporation because "muh, free markets" while they were destroying our communites and our way of life turning your average American into a lazy consumerist with the patience of a 5 year old. Q said on multiple occasions that this isn't a R vs D issue.
u/historyisyourfriend3
So you're saying the law that made divorce convenient should remain law…?
Yes, we should. The government shouldn't have a say in my day to day life.
If you want to be a sarcastic git, learn to read.
I said that we should keep the no fault divorce laws because the government shouldn't be involved in the day to day life of it's citizens.
Government DID intervene in 1969 to essentially make marriage a "non-binding" contract for the purpose of weakening the institution of marriage. (Get it?)
Before that there were fewer problems.
This allowed one party to essentially say "I divorce you" 3 times and materially harm/ruin the life of the other party financially and otherwise.
When in history was it ever so common for a man to face financial ruin because of the divorce? Enter "no-fault divorce."
no-Fault is fine IF it's: "Leave a marriage if you want, but don't expect to leave with anything from that marriage besides your personal belongings and your own income/savings." Anything else is government assisted robbery.