The Son proclaimed the Father of the Old Testament, quite explicitly, and was identified by the prophets of the God of the Old Testament. To denounce the Old Testament witnesses that identified the Son is to denounce the completion and corroboration of the testimony of the Son.
Again, as you repeated yourself, if your claim is that Judaism worships a different god, you’re free to make the case.
I am somewhat familiar with Gnosticism, and its habit of repeating itself, and playing very fast and loose with facts, evidence, and logic whenever it finds it convenient to do so, though there are limited aspects of it that I have an appreciation for. The repetition and evasiveness tend to grind my patience.
There are things that I know that I will not state to a gnostic to try and show reasoning or “score points” in an argument, because I do not expect the gnostic to treat those facts with the respect they deserve.
Granted, all true. But you are not understanding me. If both groups truly worshipped the same God, there would be no enmity. So who then is worshipping another? And who might that other be? Who is the one who was created by God, but that wanted to be first?
“If both groups truly worshipped the same God, there would be no enmity. So who then is worshipping another?”
“But you are not understanding me.”
Same. I’m stating that Jesus proclaimed YHWH, so if YHWH is false, so is Jesus, and that does not strike me as correct. Then I’m asking you to make an argument on who Judaism worships, because if there is enmity, and two different gods are being worshipped, Jesus claimed YHWH, so who is the other one?
It is perfectly possible that there is some combination of doctrinal error(s), by multiple parties, and infiltrated wolves in sheeps’ clothing secretly worshipping another god while claiming the one true One, and that these things are not uniform and monolithic across Judaism, but vary by school, synagogue, and individual.
That same logic applies to the issues currently going on with the Methodist church, and other branches as well. They are either secretly worshipping another god, or in deep doctrinal error.
I personally suspect that there is a lot of demonic influence grown out of disobedience driving it all, with most of the people unwittingly going along with it, a few people at the top who know what they’re doing, and a lot of people through combinations of factors falling into doctrinal error by not sufficiently studying the scriptures or having good discernment. “ ‘Love is Love’ so advocate sodomy!” “Protect our Trans Kids! Chop your Son’s ween off and mutilate your daughters!”
The fact that men have fallen into error does not mean that God changed or was misnamed. It means men stopped listening and strayed.
Many of the Israelites who were listening converted to Christianity in its early years…. That would indicate… what… about the ones who remained? We also know there was a massive assimilation centuries later, as they themselves recorded and told us about it. Who came in, and what percentage of the modern practitioners are from those people, and what percentage are actually faithful to the roots and spirit of the religion?
There are faithful practitioners of Judaism today - non-Christian faithful adherents of the Tanakh.
If you want a great starting point to look at, Jacob Rothschild was a member of the Reform school, which has been accused by the other primary branches of barely even being Judaism.
I think you know of whom I speak. The great deceiver. And anyone, in any faith can be deceived and begin to follow the one masquerading as the True God.
You didn’t say clearly if you were gnostic, so I’m not certain that was what you meant, but this sort of constant shifting away from reasoning and evidence and the subject-at-hand is why precisely I do not enjoy discussions with gnostics.
The Son proclaimed the Father of the Old Testament, quite explicitly, and was identified by the prophets of the God of the Old Testament. To denounce the Old Testament witnesses that identified the Son is to denounce the completion and corroboration of the testimony of the Son.
Again, as you repeated yourself, if your claim is that Judaism worships a different god, you’re free to make the case.
I am somewhat familiar with Gnosticism, and its habit of repeating itself, and playing very fast and loose with facts, evidence, and logic whenever it finds it convenient to do so, though there are limited aspects of it that I have an appreciation for. The repetition and evasiveness tend to grind my patience.
There are things that I know that I will not state to a gnostic to try and show reasoning or “score points” in an argument, because I do not expect the gnostic to treat those facts with the respect they deserve.
Granted, all true. But you are not understanding me. If both groups truly worshipped the same God, there would be no enmity. So who then is worshipping another? And who might that other be? Who is the one who was created by God, but that wanted to be first?
“If both groups truly worshipped the same God, there would be no enmity. So who then is worshipping another?”
“But you are not understanding me.”
Same. I’m stating that Jesus proclaimed YHWH, so if YHWH is false, so is Jesus, and that does not strike me as correct. Then I’m asking you to make an argument on who Judaism worships, because if there is enmity, and two different gods are being worshipped, Jesus claimed YHWH, so who is the other one?
It is perfectly possible that there is some combination of doctrinal error(s), by multiple parties, and infiltrated wolves in sheeps’ clothing secretly worshipping another god while claiming the one true One, and that these things are not uniform and monolithic across Judaism, but vary by school, synagogue, and individual.
That same logic applies to the issues currently going on with the Methodist church, and other branches as well. They are either secretly worshipping another god, or in deep doctrinal error.
I personally suspect that there is a lot of demonic influence grown out of disobedience driving it all, with most of the people unwittingly going along with it, a few people at the top who know what they’re doing, and a lot of people through combinations of factors falling into doctrinal error by not sufficiently studying the scriptures or having good discernment. “ ‘Love is Love’ so advocate sodomy!” “Protect our Trans Kids! Chop your Son’s ween off and mutilate your daughters!”
The fact that men have fallen into error does not mean that God changed or was misnamed. It means men stopped listening and strayed.
Many of the Israelites who were listening converted to Christianity in its early years…. That would indicate… what… about the ones who remained? We also know there was a massive assimilation centuries later, as they themselves recorded and told us about it. Who came in, and what percentage of the modern practitioners are from those people, and what percentage are actually faithful to the roots and spirit of the religion?
There are faithful practitioners of Judaism today - non-Christian faithful adherents of the Tanakh.
If you want a great starting point to look at, Jacob Rothschild was a member of the Reform school, which has been accused by the other primary branches of barely even being Judaism.
I think you know of whom I speak. The great deceiver. And anyone, in any faith can be deceived and begin to follow the one masquerading as the True God.
sigh.
You didn’t say clearly if you were gnostic, so I’m not certain that was what you meant, but this sort of constant shifting away from reasoning and evidence and the subject-at-hand is why precisely I do not enjoy discussions with gnostics.