Let me make this bold assumption that your idea is that, the wisdom and truth from God gives you the right to judge other people based on their beliefs and actions.
But if you paid careful attention to the Gospels and to what Jesus actually taught us, it is not our place to judge others. Everyone will have to answer to the God when their time comes and it is between them and the God only.
Furthermore, your own judgements will be harsher if you have been judging your fellow human beings yourself.
I have seen far too many religious people who have followed religion for long times, and who end up falling in this trap that just because they understand the Truth, it gives them the right to judge others who haven't.
You see "camel fuckers" and no doubt you have other names for other people that you don't agree with.
But what I see are my fellow brothers and sisters - all as much loved by God as any of us here, still lost and still yet to find their way to the Truth.
The whole reason this Q operation had to take this long and had to be this painful was precisely because we didn't want to lose half the humanity. Because we want to save as many people as we can.
God gives you the right to judge other people based on their beliefs and actions.
Yes. He instructs us to based upon His standards. In fact scripture says the saints will even judge the angels.
But if you paid careful attention to the Gospels and to what Jesus actually taught us, it is not our place to judge others.
Oof. You just made a very foolish assertion. First you judged me for judging. Hypocrite? Or maybe you have a poor understanding of what Jesus was saying there and it's you that didn't pay attention to God's Word.
Let me help you out...
Jesus' teaching about judging others, particularly in the Sermon on the Mount, is often misunderstood to imply that Christians should never judge at all. However, when we examine His words in the context of Scripture, it becomes clear that Jesus was instructing His followers to judge righteously, according to God's standards, and not by human or superficial measures. Here's a case for this understanding:
Jesus' Teachings on Judging
Matthew 7:1-5:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?... First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
Explanation: At first glance, it seems Jesus is telling us not to judge at all. However, He goes on to say that we must first examine ourselves (remove the "log" in our own eye), so we can "see clearly" to help our brother. This implies that judgment, when done humbly and righteously, is part of our responsibility. We are not called to judge hypocritically or by human standards, but rather with humility, after self-reflection.
John 7:24:
"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."
Explanation: Here, Jesus directly commands His followers to judge, but He clarifies that the judgment must not be superficial or based on appearances. Instead, we are called to judge rightly, which is to judge according to God's standards, in truth and righteousness.
Other Scriptures on Judging with God's Standards
1 Corinthians 5:12-13:
"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. 'Purge the evil person from among you.'"
Explanation: The Apostle Paul instructs the church to exercise judgment within the body of believers, using God's moral standards to hold one another accountable. This shows that Christians are not only permitted but required to judge sinful behavior within the church.
1 Corinthians 2:15:
"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."
Explanation: A person who lives by the Spirit, walking in accordance with God's Word, is called to judge all things spiritually. This means discerning between good and evil, truth and falsehood, based on God's standards, not man's.
Matthew 18:15-17:
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother."
Explanation: This passage shows Jesus' instruction on dealing with sin within the community. Here, we see that confronting someone about their sin—essentially making a judgment—is a loving and necessary act for restoring the sinner. This judgment must be done in alignment with God's law.
Galatians 6:1:
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the need for judgment to be done in gentleness and humility, reflecting God's character. It is not a harsh, self-righteous judgment, but rather a righteous judgment aimed at restoration.
The Case for Judging by God's Standards
Throughout Scripture, Jesus and the Apostles call believers to exercise judgment, but always in accordance with God's righteous standards, not human or hypocritical standards. Here are the key reasons:
God's Law is the Ultimate Standard: Christians are called to uphold God's commandments and discern between right and wrong based on His Word, not cultural trends or personal preferences (Isaiah 5:20). Jesus Himself, in John 8:15-16, said, "You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me."
Judgment Begins with Self-Reflection: Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7 is not a prohibition on all forms of judgment but a call to begin with humility and self-reflection before judging others. This prevents hypocrisy and ensures that judgment is grounded in righteousness, not personal pride.
Judging to Restore and Protect the Community: Scriptural examples, such as in Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5, show that Christians must judge in order to maintain the purity of the church and to restore those who have gone astray.
Conclusion
Jesus did not condemn all forms of judgment but warned against hypocritical and unrighteous judgment. Christians are called to judge rightly, meaning according to God's standards—His Word and law. This judgment must be exercised in humility, with a heart toward restoration, and in the fear of the Lord. Other scriptures confirm that Christians have the responsibility to judge sin within the church and to discern truth from error, always in accordance with God’s revealed truth.
So maybe tone it down a notch. Your position was obviously hypocritical with just basic logic applied AND completely wrong with a cursory look at the totality of scripture. You literally can't even preach the gospel without judgement. This is super basic stuff and not exactly deep theological dogma.
Why would you consider telling someone that they might be wrong in interpretation of the scripture as "Judgement" when I have not condemned you, nor called you names, nor questioned your value as a human being?
This is not the first time I have seen people who believe they are followers of Jesus Christ twist the scriptures to suit their beliefs. Let me explain to you point by point.
Matthew 7:1-5:
First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
This is not about giving you the permission to judge others, but simply and literally pointing out that none of us are worthy to judge others because none of us can ever remove all the logs out of our own eyes as none of us are fully pure.
This is further explained in John 8:7-9:
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him.
John 7:24:
This is the first time I am seeing someone using this to give themselves the permission to judge others. This is not a standalone verse, but part of a passage with a specific story. You will need to read the whole passage to understand what this about, and that its not about telling you to judge others: John 7:14-24
About the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. 15 The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning,[d] when he has never studied?” 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's[e] will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. 18 The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. 19 Has not Moses given you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” 20 The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who is seeking to kill you?” 21 Jesus answered them, “I did one work, and you all marvel at it. 22 Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. 23 If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man's whole body well? 24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
Galatians 6:1:
This verse emphasizes the need for judgment to be done in gentleness and humility, reflecting God's character
May I gently point out that none of your comments in this thread - esp the "Camel fucker" comment - come from a place of gentleness and humility, and definitely does not reflect God's character.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13:
God judges those outside.
And yet here you are judging non-believers for not knowing the God's Truth. Incidentally those were my exact words as well - "It is between them and God" - and you are here arguing against it.
1 Corinthians 2:15:
The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
Your interpretation of this verse is completely off the mark. It is explained well here
You can also deduce that this interpretation is wrong because, according to you, a person of spirit is beyond judgement from others, whereas in the previous section you yourself said that you are required to judge others of faith.
Matthew 18:15-17:
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother."
May I point out gently again that you have selectively interpreted this to give you power to judge others. Did you not notice carefully that this verse is not about judgement but rather talking to your brother and pointing out his fault?
Infact, that is what I did with my previous response that you so carelessly brushed off as "judgement" and being a hypocrite.
If you were to follow this scripture, you would try and reason with those glorify terrorism rather than rejoicing at exploding them and calling them offensive names.
Galatians 6:1:
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness."
The same exact message is repeated here as well. There is a great emphasis on spirit of gentleness in all these verses because when you come from a place of gentleness, you will be incapable of being so offensive towards your fellow humans, esp ones who have been groomed in ignorance by the very same people who have been enslaving us.
Conclusion:
All the verses you have referenced, with the exception of John 7-24 (which is not relevant to this particular discussion as I pointed out), actually tells you that what you are doing is not in the spirit of God.
My intention is not to prove you are wrong or try and change your mind, but to simply point out the faults in your interpretations so that, when you are inclined to look at it objectively, it might help you see things differently.
However, ultimately, its between you and God and not my place to judge you.
Your entire reply was judgment. Deciding if something is writing or wrong is judging if something is right or wrong by using the standard of scripture which is exactly what I'm saying scripture instructs us to do.
Thanks for agreeing with me without agreeing with me lol.
Christians are commanded to judge.... By God's standards.
The verse about a log out of your eye is specifically about Not ignoring sin in your own life and wait for it.... Judging yourself as well.
I'm sorry but you are not taking a remotely traditional Christian position but more of a modern evangelical position.
You can't preach the gospel to a non-believer without calling out their sin which is a judgment.
The totality of scripture instructs to judge by God's standards.
And as far as insulting pagans... Well there's quite a bit of harsh language.
I think my favorite is first Kings 18:27 were Elijah sarcastically taunts the prophets of Baal If their God is taking a shit. Then we have Jeremiah calling Israel a whore or in Galatians 5:12 where Paul told them to go ahead and cut their entire penises off.
Let me make this bold assumption that your idea is that, the wisdom and truth from God gives you the right to judge other people based on their beliefs and actions.
But if you paid careful attention to the Gospels and to what Jesus actually taught us, it is not our place to judge others. Everyone will have to answer to the God when their time comes and it is between them and the God only.
Furthermore, your own judgements will be harsher if you have been judging your fellow human beings yourself.
I have seen far too many religious people who have followed religion for long times, and who end up falling in this trap that just because they understand the Truth, it gives them the right to judge others who haven't.
You see "camel fuckers" and no doubt you have other names for other people that you don't agree with.
But what I see are my fellow brothers and sisters - all as much loved by God as any of us here, still lost and still yet to find their way to the Truth.
The whole reason this Q operation had to take this long and had to be this painful was precisely because we didn't want to lose half the humanity. Because we want to save as many people as we can.
Yes. He instructs us to based upon His standards. In fact scripture says the saints will even judge the angels.
Oof. You just made a very foolish assertion. First you judged me for judging. Hypocrite? Or maybe you have a poor understanding of what Jesus was saying there and it's you that didn't pay attention to God's Word.
Let me help you out...
Jesus' teaching about judging others, particularly in the Sermon on the Mount, is often misunderstood to imply that Christians should never judge at all. However, when we examine His words in the context of Scripture, it becomes clear that Jesus was instructing His followers to judge righteously, according to God's standards, and not by human or superficial measures. Here's a case for this understanding:
Jesus' Teachings on Judging
Explanation: At first glance, it seems Jesus is telling us not to judge at all. However, He goes on to say that we must first examine ourselves (remove the "log" in our own eye), so we can "see clearly" to help our brother. This implies that judgment, when done humbly and righteously, is part of our responsibility. We are not called to judge hypocritically or by human standards, but rather with humility, after self-reflection.
Explanation: Here, Jesus directly commands His followers to judge, but He clarifies that the judgment must not be superficial or based on appearances. Instead, we are called to judge rightly, which is to judge according to God's standards, in truth and righteousness.
Other Scriptures on Judging with God's Standards
Explanation: The Apostle Paul instructs the church to exercise judgment within the body of believers, using God's moral standards to hold one another accountable. This shows that Christians are not only permitted but required to judge sinful behavior within the church.
Explanation: A person who lives by the Spirit, walking in accordance with God's Word, is called to judge all things spiritually. This means discerning between good and evil, truth and falsehood, based on God's standards, not man's.
Explanation: This passage shows Jesus' instruction on dealing with sin within the community. Here, we see that confronting someone about their sin—essentially making a judgment—is a loving and necessary act for restoring the sinner. This judgment must be done in alignment with God's law.
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the need for judgment to be done in gentleness and humility, reflecting God's character. It is not a harsh, self-righteous judgment, but rather a righteous judgment aimed at restoration.
The Case for Judging by God's Standards
Throughout Scripture, Jesus and the Apostles call believers to exercise judgment, but always in accordance with God's righteous standards, not human or hypocritical standards. Here are the key reasons:
God's Law is the Ultimate Standard: Christians are called to uphold God's commandments and discern between right and wrong based on His Word, not cultural trends or personal preferences (Isaiah 5:20). Jesus Himself, in John 8:15-16, said, "You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me."
Judgment Begins with Self-Reflection: Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 7 is not a prohibition on all forms of judgment but a call to begin with humility and self-reflection before judging others. This prevents hypocrisy and ensures that judgment is grounded in righteousness, not personal pride.
Judging to Restore and Protect the Community: Scriptural examples, such as in Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5, show that Christians must judge in order to maintain the purity of the church and to restore those who have gone astray.
Conclusion
Jesus did not condemn all forms of judgment but warned against hypocritical and unrighteous judgment. Christians are called to judge rightly, meaning according to God's standards—His Word and law. This judgment must be exercised in humility, with a heart toward restoration, and in the fear of the Lord. Other scriptures confirm that Christians have the responsibility to judge sin within the church and to discern truth from error, always in accordance with God’s revealed truth.
So maybe tone it down a notch. Your position was obviously hypocritical with just basic logic applied AND completely wrong with a cursory look at the totality of scripture. You literally can't even preach the gospel without judgement. This is super basic stuff and not exactly deep theological dogma.
Why would you consider telling someone that they might be wrong in interpretation of the scripture as "Judgement" when I have not condemned you, nor called you names, nor questioned your value as a human being?
This is not the first time I have seen people who believe they are followers of Jesus Christ twist the scriptures to suit their beliefs. Let me explain to you point by point.
This is not about giving you the permission to judge others, but simply and literally pointing out that none of us are worthy to judge others because none of us can ever remove all the logs out of our own eyes as none of us are fully pure.
This is further explained in John 8:7-9:
This is the first time I am seeing someone using this to give themselves the permission to judge others. This is not a standalone verse, but part of a passage with a specific story. You will need to read the whole passage to understand what this about, and that its not about telling you to judge others: John 7:14-24
May I gently point out that none of your comments in this thread - esp the "Camel fucker" comment - come from a place of gentleness and humility, and definitely does not reflect God's character.
And yet here you are judging non-believers for not knowing the God's Truth. Incidentally those were my exact words as well - "It is between them and God" - and you are here arguing against it.
Your interpretation of this verse is completely off the mark. It is explained well here
You can also deduce that this interpretation is wrong because, according to you, a person of spirit is beyond judgement from others, whereas in the previous section you yourself said that you are required to judge others of faith.
May I point out gently again that you have selectively interpreted this to give you power to judge others. Did you not notice carefully that this verse is not about judgement but rather talking to your brother and pointing out his fault?
Infact, that is what I did with my previous response that you so carelessly brushed off as "judgement" and being a hypocrite.
If you were to follow this scripture, you would try and reason with those glorify terrorism rather than rejoicing at exploding them and calling them offensive names.
The same exact message is repeated here as well. There is a great emphasis on spirit of gentleness in all these verses because when you come from a place of gentleness, you will be incapable of being so offensive towards your fellow humans, esp ones who have been groomed in ignorance by the very same people who have been enslaving us.
Conclusion:
All the verses you have referenced, with the exception of John 7-24 (which is not relevant to this particular discussion as I pointed out), actually tells you that what you are doing is not in the spirit of God.
My intention is not to prove you are wrong or try and change your mind, but to simply point out the faults in your interpretations so that, when you are inclined to look at it objectively, it might help you see things differently.
However, ultimately, its between you and God and not my place to judge you.
Your entire reply was judgment. Deciding if something is writing or wrong is judging if something is right or wrong by using the standard of scripture which is exactly what I'm saying scripture instructs us to do.
Thanks for agreeing with me without agreeing with me lol.
Christians are commanded to judge.... By God's standards.
The verse about a log out of your eye is specifically about Not ignoring sin in your own life and wait for it.... Judging yourself as well.
I'm sorry but you are not taking a remotely traditional Christian position but more of a modern evangelical position.
You can't preach the gospel to a non-believer without calling out their sin which is a judgment.
The totality of scripture instructs to judge by God's standards.
And as far as insulting pagans... Well there's quite a bit of harsh language.
I think my favorite is first Kings 18:27 were Elijah sarcastically taunts the prophets of Baal If their God is taking a shit. Then we have Jeremiah calling Israel a whore or in Galatians 5:12 where Paul told them to go ahead and cut their entire penises off.
So yeah, harsh language has its place.
Have a good day.