An AI summary! I have messed with ChatGP a bit. I asked for information on the Godhead. It came back with what I would call the consensus opinion on that subject. Now AI did give you what I believe to be the 2 major opinions on the subject of Mystery Babylon.
The Catholic Church is a popular protestant interpretation for the identity of Mystery Babylon. As an X-Catholic I can appreciate that interpretation. I will clearly state that I believe the Catholic Church is a type of Mystery Babylon. But did the Apostle John have the Catholic church in mind when he wrote Revelation? In fact did John even have us (2024 Christians) in mind when he wrote Revelation? Who was Johns' primary audience? The 7 churches in Asia - real churches that existed in John's day.
One quick point I'll make is that you are correct that Rome is a city on seven hills. But did you know that Jerusalem is also a city built on seven hills? Most folks dismiss Jerusalem as Mystery Babylon simply because they interpret the city on seven hills as being Rome. Revelation 17:9 (KJV) - And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
We are given clues in Revelation as to the identity of Mystery Babylon:
#1: Mystery Babylon is a city. (Rev. 17:18; 14:8; 16:19; 18:10)
#2: Mystery Babylon presides over a vast international system (of religion). (Rev. 17:1; 17:15)
#3: Mystery Babylon (the city) sits on 7 hills. (Rev. 17:9)
#4: Mystery Babylon is clothed in purple & red. (Rev. 17:4)
#5: Mystery Babylon was were our Lord was crucified: (Rev. 11:8)
Rev 11:8 (KJV) - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, **where also our Lord was crucified. **
I believe that Rev. 11:8 kinda "seals the deal". It's hard to get around that scripture. And you know what? I have noticed articles that conclude that either the city of Rome (or the Catholic Church) are Mystery Babylon (conveniently) leave out any mention of Rev. 11:8!
I can take thru point by point as to why I believe Mystery Babylon is Jerusalem of the 1st century rather than the Catholic Church. I am willing to do that - but first please read the article below. I am very close to the author of that article.
#5: Mystery Babylon was were our Lord was crucified: (Rev. 11:8)
John 19:17-20 implies that He was crucified outside of Jerusalem, but beyond this, where do you find that this "great city" from Rev. 11:8 is the same as Mystery Babylon? Furthermore, Jerusalem was not a "great" city; it was a captured, annexed Roman territory. The only real candidate for any such described city at that time would have been...
Rome✅
I'll read the link you sent me, give me a bit and I'll get back to you! 🙏
I have time to address one of your points - look at John 19:18 - "And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha, where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center." ~ John 19:18 NKJV
Where is the Location of Golgotha?
Golgotha, also named Calvary in Latin, is normally said to be connected to the traditional site of Christ's Crucifixion, now in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem. This church is within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem.
So Golgotha was within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem - it was within the city limits of Jerusalem.
One thing for certain is that Jesus WAS NOT crucified anywhere near Rome.
Hey sorry for the delay. I read your article, and though it was well written I'm still not convinced. The lingering questions I had throughout was "how do we know this is the same 'great city' as Mystery Babylon the Great?" (you could go into this in more detail I'm sure) as well as "was Golgotha in Jerusalem?" (I have heard that the Romans had designated crucifixion locations by the main roads into Rome, to serve as warnings to those entering the city).
These questions sent me digging and I will show you what I found:
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/11-8.htm - I went on what I can only describe as a thrilling rollercoaster here. Or a pinball machine 🫨 Kek. I read these from the bottom up, last to first, if you'd like to replicate my journey.
Overall, I'm more convinced of my position than I was before. I had read exerpts of Key To The Apocalypse but was inspired to read the rest of it. The Golgotha topic is brand new to me but is quite weak when compared to the numerous other qualifiers for the beast's identity. Jerusalem was wiped off the map for over almost two millenia and somehow it's supposed to have 1260 years reign persecuting the saints on earth? When is that supposed to begin, 1948? And now it's a fledgling little blip in the ME and sure, they've produced some real pricks scheming behind the scenes in our politics, but who could really say they've persecuted the saints and spilled their blood like pagan and papal Rome have? They do not fit the descriptions later ascribed in Revelation to the beast and the harlot. Your position also relies a bit too heavily on the pre-70AD penning of the book for my liking, because that itself is not confirmed.
If anything though, I could potentially subscribe Jerusalem under or within Papal Rome, as historically they have employed Jews, as money managers, for instance. They have also acted in carnal ungodliness in the name of God, just like Jerusalem of old. In this case, Papal Rome would then take on the charge of the Jews having "the blood of all the Prophets on their heads". Think of Jerusalem being put into Rome's basket along with all the other pagan religions and athiests alike. Babylon the Great is the perfect name for such a Frankenstein behemoth hodge-podge of all the world's abominations and fornications, mingling of all idolitries and false faiths into one big nasty religion that just so happens to be completely intolerable of anyone who disagrees with it, when they have the power to enforce that intolerance. But they play cute and tolerant when they're weak, like today with that Jesuit freak Bogoglio.
Caught up on your thread. Agreed that Babylon transcends the physical realm and thus signifies the systematic pagan and satanic (spi-)ritual practices, wherever they may be. It can mean both the Roman church and Jerusalem, and anywhere else stricken. I liken it to how the Church really is the body of Christ, God's people, and not the temple. The Christian movement transcended walls, borders, and cultures.
Oneness through Christ has been coopted through the globalist movement and watered down in generic, one world religion terms, eg the new-age spiritual movement, to advance their agenda for "the common good." It's all propaganda.
They use the Vatican and Israel as the sovereign, protected perches to hammer through their agenda. As per Benz's interview, I like that you honed in on those two regional state desks as critical 5th gen deep state warfare command posts. Cheers, fren.
An AI summary! I have messed with ChatGP a bit. I asked for information on the Godhead. It came back with what I would call the consensus opinion on that subject. Now AI did give you what I believe to be the 2 major opinions on the subject of Mystery Babylon.
The Catholic Church is a popular protestant interpretation for the identity of Mystery Babylon. As an X-Catholic I can appreciate that interpretation. I will clearly state that I believe the Catholic Church is a type of Mystery Babylon. But did the Apostle John have the Catholic church in mind when he wrote Revelation? In fact did John even have us (2024 Christians) in mind when he wrote Revelation? Who was Johns' primary audience? The 7 churches in Asia - real churches that existed in John's day.
One quick point I'll make is that you are correct that Rome is a city on seven hills. But did you know that Jerusalem is also a city built on seven hills? Most folks dismiss Jerusalem as Mystery Babylon simply because they interpret the city on seven hills as being Rome. Revelation 17:9 (KJV) - And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
We are given clues in Revelation as to the identity of Mystery Babylon:
#1: Mystery Babylon is a city. (Rev. 17:18; 14:8; 16:19; 18:10) #2: Mystery Babylon presides over a vast international system (of religion). (Rev. 17:1; 17:15) #3: Mystery Babylon (the city) sits on 7 hills. (Rev. 17:9) #4: Mystery Babylon is clothed in purple & red. (Rev. 17:4) #5: Mystery Babylon was were our Lord was crucified: (Rev. 11:8)
Rev 11:8 (KJV) - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, **where also our Lord was crucified. **
I believe that Rev. 11:8 kinda "seals the deal". It's hard to get around that scripture. And you know what? I have noticed articles that conclude that either the city of Rome (or the Catholic Church) are Mystery Babylon (conveniently) leave out any mention of Rev. 11:8!
I can take thru point by point as to why I believe Mystery Babylon is Jerusalem of the 1st century rather than the Catholic Church. I am willing to do that - but first please read the article below. I am very close to the author of that article.
https://www.scripturerevealed.com/prophecy/mystery-babylon/
Sorry for the delay, I got side tracked by Dues Vult. We tend to get spicy from time to time! kek
Rome ✅
Rome ✅
Rome ✅
Rome ✅ https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~zIAAOSwJ7lm0Z60/s-l140.jpg
https://postimg.cc/qt1jGR9Q
John 19:17-20 implies that He was crucified outside of Jerusalem, but beyond this, where do you find that this "great city" from Rev. 11:8 is the same as Mystery Babylon? Furthermore, Jerusalem was not a "great" city; it was a captured, annexed Roman territory. The only real candidate for any such described city at that time would have been...
Rome✅
I'll read the link you sent me, give me a bit and I'll get back to you! 🙏
I have time to address one of your points - look at John 19:18 - "And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha, where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center." ~ John 19:18 NKJV
Where is the Location of Golgotha?
Golgotha, also named Calvary in Latin, is normally said to be connected to the traditional site of Christ's Crucifixion, now in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Christian Quarter of Jerusalem. This church is within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem.
So Golgotha was within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem - it was within the city limits of Jerusalem.
One thing for certain is that Jesus WAS NOT crucified anywhere near Rome.
Hey sorry for the delay. I read your article, and though it was well written I'm still not convinced. The lingering questions I had throughout was "how do we know this is the same 'great city' as Mystery Babylon the Great?" (you could go into this in more detail I'm sure) as well as "was Golgotha in Jerusalem?" (I have heard that the Romans had designated crucifixion locations by the main roads into Rome, to serve as warnings to those entering the city).
These questions sent me digging and I will show you what I found:
https://www.jesusfilm.org/blog/where-was-jesus-crucified/ - this is apparently not a settled matter.
https://www.lutheranlibrary.org/pdf/738-guinness-key-to-the-apocalypse.pdf - I read from page 17 through the end of the book. Strongly recommended, even if only to get a good grasp on my views of the issue. It only took about 2 hours, there are some optional segments which I skimmed.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/11-8.htm - I went on what I can only describe as a thrilling rollercoaster here. Or a pinball machine 🫨 Kek. I read these from the bottom up, last to first, if you'd like to replicate my journey.
Overall, I'm more convinced of my position than I was before. I had read exerpts of Key To The Apocalypse but was inspired to read the rest of it. The Golgotha topic is brand new to me but is quite weak when compared to the numerous other qualifiers for the beast's identity. Jerusalem was wiped off the map for over almost two millenia and somehow it's supposed to have 1260 years reign persecuting the saints on earth? When is that supposed to begin, 1948? And now it's a fledgling little blip in the ME and sure, they've produced some real pricks scheming behind the scenes in our politics, but who could really say they've persecuted the saints and spilled their blood like pagan and papal Rome have? They do not fit the descriptions later ascribed in Revelation to the beast and the harlot. Your position also relies a bit too heavily on the pre-70AD penning of the book for my liking, because that itself is not confirmed.
If anything though, I could potentially subscribe Jerusalem under or within Papal Rome, as historically they have employed Jews, as money managers, for instance. They have also acted in carnal ungodliness in the name of God, just like Jerusalem of old. In this case, Papal Rome would then take on the charge of the Jews having "the blood of all the Prophets on their heads". Think of Jerusalem being put into Rome's basket along with all the other pagan religions and athiests alike. Babylon the Great is the perfect name for such a Frankenstein behemoth hodge-podge of all the world's abominations and fornications, mingling of all idolitries and false faiths into one big nasty religion that just so happens to be completely intolerable of anyone who disagrees with it, when they have the power to enforce that intolerance. But they play cute and tolerant when they're weak, like today with that Jesuit freak Bogoglio.
Caught up on your thread. Agreed that Babylon transcends the physical realm and thus signifies the systematic pagan and satanic (spi-)ritual practices, wherever they may be. It can mean both the Roman church and Jerusalem, and anywhere else stricken. I liken it to how the Church really is the body of Christ, God's people, and not the temple. The Christian movement transcended walls, borders, and cultures.
Oneness through Christ has been coopted through the globalist movement and watered down in generic, one world religion terms, eg the new-age spiritual movement, to advance their agenda for "the common good." It's all propaganda.
They use the Vatican and Israel as the sovereign, protected perches to hammer through their agenda. As per Benz's interview, I like that you honed in on those two regional state desks as critical 5th gen deep state warfare command posts. Cheers, fren.
Happy Thanksgiving - thanks for the reply! Can I ask your religious/church background? Most folks hold onto whatever they were taught as young people.
Enjoy the article - I wrote it!