1 Corinthians 11:29 - St. Paul says clearly, "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself." Read the Fathers of the Church from the first centuries. All kinds of ritual going on from day one.
Exactly. He had a personal invitation from Christ Himself, so no trappings, no baptism.
HOWEVER, plenty before and after this does talk about baptism and how the Holy Spirit will influence your life. Jesus even insisted on being baptized. Does that change who he was? No, but it is an example that you ignore at your own peril.
Personnally I believe the example given at the crucifixion should not be viewed as the rule, but actually the exception. Jesus Himself talked to the thief, and extended that personal invitation.
Ultimately God sets the rules, we follow the examples.
The thief didn’t have time for the sacraments and was saved by Jesus himself in his physical form. Something that the rest of us will never experience.
Well I would argue then that you are in conflict in what Jesus said.
Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins and through apostolic tradition confession remains a sacrament to this day. John 20:21-23
Communion is a sacrament from the last super. Luke 22: 19-20
Baptism Matthew 3:16-17 is when Jesus is baptism and Jesus commanded his apostles to baptize Matthew 28:19
Anointing of the sick James 5:14-15
Holy orders Acts 6:6, 1 Timothy 4:14, Matthew 28: 16-20
Anointing of the sick James 5: 14-5
Marriage is a pretty self explanatory as a sacrament.
The reason I left Protestantism is that it is largely a disaster and that is the result of sola scriptura. It has cheapened the sacraments especially confession, marriage and communion. And because Protestants don’t have any real authority or can agree on anything there are hundreds of denominations. I mean the Church of England has completely collapsed with LGBTQ+, most Lutheran churches other than LCMS don’t even agree with Luther anymore, as someone that grew up in a Calvinist church I had no idea what Calvin even believed until I actually had to look into it. Then evangelicals are telling me I have to worship the modern state of Israel. So there is just never ending splits and heresy.
It’s also a generational thing to a degree. The super majority of converts at my parish are Gen Z and Millennial Protestants. We grew up in a world of chaos with transgenderism, gay marriage, abortion, feminism, sexual degeneracy promoted everywhere, divorce, porn etc. And when you sit back and think and read about how did this happen you inevitably come to the conclusion that the Protestant Reformation laid the ground work of it. Cause it reduces everything to the individuals interpretation of it all. Sola scriptura, sola fide if I don’t like what my church says I’ll break away and make my own church with women pastors and rainbow flags. You can be as conservative Protestant as you want but your baseline is the same as the progressive Protestant. Individual interpretation with no authority.
Protestantism lead to liberalism which lead to secularism which lead to the collapse of western society. That is why the west is losing demographically. Non liberal non secular groups like Hindu’s and Muslims are out breeding us.
You know what churches have held their ground? The Catholic and Orthodox churches have.
Yes the Catholic Church has had infiltrators and scandals but it is so much harder to bring down because of the authority granted through the ecumenical councils, apostolic succession and clearly defined doctrine. And you have to go to confession and be held accountable as an individual.
And every day more and more young people are realizing this truth and Protestant leaders are panicking about it. You need the sacraments, authority and scripture. Scripture alone is chaos. This YouTube video does a good job explaining why Protestantism did more damage to Christianity and the west then good.
The good thief is a very special case, dying next to Our Lord Himself. For the vast majority (all the other believers), the early church had definite rituals.
Fren, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone engaging in this conversation. You are very angry and that isn't necessary. You have never heard in common parlance the phrase "the good thief" referring to the one who asked Jesus to remember Him when He came into His kingdom? (Also known as St. Dismas). I can't help your general unawareness of this expression that is used in this way the world over. So no, I don't call him a good thief, the entire western world has called him that for centuries. Yes, of course, no one comes to the Father but through Jesus. No one is debating that. But Jesus in words and actions during His life on earth gave us the Sacraments. Baptism, Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick, His priests forgiving sins in His Name, etc. That doesn't limit God's saving power, God can certainly save those who reach out to Him with no knowledge of the Church Jesus founded. But Jesus in His infinite wisdom, chose to leave us these signs that make us live in Him more deeply. Who are we to question what the Lord decreed?
1 Corinthians 11:29 - St. Paul says clearly, "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself." Read the Fathers of the Church from the first centuries. All kinds of ritual going on from day one.
Exactly. He had a personal invitation from Christ Himself, so no trappings, no baptism.
HOWEVER, plenty before and after this does talk about baptism and how the Holy Spirit will influence your life. Jesus even insisted on being baptized. Does that change who he was? No, but it is an example that you ignore at your own peril.
Personnally I believe the example given at the crucifixion should not be viewed as the rule, but actually the exception. Jesus Himself talked to the thief, and extended that personal invitation.
Ultimately God sets the rules, we follow the examples.
The thief didn’t have time for the sacraments and was saved by Jesus himself in his physical form. Something that the rest of us will never experience.
Well I would argue then that you are in conflict in what Jesus said.
Jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins and through apostolic tradition confession remains a sacrament to this day. John 20:21-23
Communion is a sacrament from the last super. Luke 22: 19-20
Baptism Matthew 3:16-17 is when Jesus is baptism and Jesus commanded his apostles to baptize Matthew 28:19
Anointing of the sick James 5:14-15
Holy orders Acts 6:6, 1 Timothy 4:14, Matthew 28: 16-20
Anointing of the sick James 5: 14-5
Marriage is a pretty self explanatory as a sacrament.
The reason I left Protestantism is that it is largely a disaster and that is the result of sola scriptura. It has cheapened the sacraments especially confession, marriage and communion. And because Protestants don’t have any real authority or can agree on anything there are hundreds of denominations. I mean the Church of England has completely collapsed with LGBTQ+, most Lutheran churches other than LCMS don’t even agree with Luther anymore, as someone that grew up in a Calvinist church I had no idea what Calvin even believed until I actually had to look into it. Then evangelicals are telling me I have to worship the modern state of Israel. So there is just never ending splits and heresy.
It’s also a generational thing to a degree. The super majority of converts at my parish are Gen Z and Millennial Protestants. We grew up in a world of chaos with transgenderism, gay marriage, abortion, feminism, sexual degeneracy promoted everywhere, divorce, porn etc. And when you sit back and think and read about how did this happen you inevitably come to the conclusion that the Protestant Reformation laid the ground work of it. Cause it reduces everything to the individuals interpretation of it all. Sola scriptura, sola fide if I don’t like what my church says I’ll break away and make my own church with women pastors and rainbow flags. You can be as conservative Protestant as you want but your baseline is the same as the progressive Protestant. Individual interpretation with no authority.
Protestantism lead to liberalism which lead to secularism which lead to the collapse of western society. That is why the west is losing demographically. Non liberal non secular groups like Hindu’s and Muslims are out breeding us.
You know what churches have held their ground? The Catholic and Orthodox churches have.
Yes the Catholic Church has had infiltrators and scandals but it is so much harder to bring down because of the authority granted through the ecumenical councils, apostolic succession and clearly defined doctrine. And you have to go to confession and be held accountable as an individual.
And every day more and more young people are realizing this truth and Protestant leaders are panicking about it. You need the sacraments, authority and scripture. Scripture alone is chaos. This YouTube video does a good job explaining why Protestantism did more damage to Christianity and the west then good.
https://youtu.be/NU8bsqMHwUE?si=KLZfpQS_J76B8WEB
The good thief is a very special case, dying next to Our Lord Himself. For the vast majority (all the other believers), the early church had definite rituals.
Fren, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone engaging in this conversation. You are very angry and that isn't necessary. You have never heard in common parlance the phrase "the good thief" referring to the one who asked Jesus to remember Him when He came into His kingdom? (Also known as St. Dismas). I can't help your general unawareness of this expression that is used in this way the world over. So no, I don't call him a good thief, the entire western world has called him that for centuries. Yes, of course, no one comes to the Father but through Jesus. No one is debating that. But Jesus in words and actions during His life on earth gave us the Sacraments. Baptism, Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick, His priests forgiving sins in His Name, etc. That doesn't limit God's saving power, God can certainly save those who reach out to Him with no knowledge of the Church Jesus founded. But Jesus in His infinite wisdom, chose to leave us these signs that make us live in Him more deeply. Who are we to question what the Lord decreed?