I was born a free man in a country governed by what you would call democratic socialistic society-system. Birth certificate issued by church and not the gov. Rule of law was common-law.
I made $10000 gross a month as a trucker. I got a 10% no tax off top and paid 51% tax on remainder. ($5900 to me)
This 49% funded 100% free education up to any level. 100% free health care incl dental. A superior unemployment and social assistance system with paid sick days (forget how many a year but quite a lot).
Moved to a capitalistic country and I made same base monthly wages and paid around 35% on gross. ($6500 to me)
We did a calculation to see what it would cost to achieve same coverage in new country vs old country. All could be covered at a cost via ins companies.($600)
Came out to precisely the same amount except in old country you did not have to argue with a crocked ins company who tried to weasel their way out of obligations.
Reg amount of rules-laws-acts and gov threats if you do not comply the capitalistic country won big time.
Lastly I like to mention that as a pensioner one will get X4 pension in the old country based on a 40 year tax table and get a vacation paid for once a year.
Most living in a capitalistic country has been brain washed to reject any system other than their own. Not their fault at all and one have to admit the ds done a splendid job.
Not sure where this observation fits in to the conversation but:
Communism is a stateless (anarchy / anarchist) religionless (atheist) propertyless (anti-capitalist) society
These "Communist-style governments" appear to be some kind of transitionary revolutionary socialism I think (Not "true Communism" as some of the Commies want)
It's semantics I think for our side but sometimes important to note so they're not like "but it's not REAL COMMUNISM"
Communism totally has property. The oligarchy claims to own everything, including the people. The people own nothing, and are given less-than subsistence, and any resistance is attacked mercilessly.
Socialism is a step toward communism, by Marx’s own writings.
Democratic Socialism is socialism that is voted in by retards, instead of being violently imposed by a revolutionary army.
Everything else they describe it with is bullshit. The reason they say “real communism has never been tried” is because ACTUAL REAL COMMUNISM like they WANT, requires a lot of hard work to purchase the property that the communist collective would live on and use and self-govern (the mud farmers in Monty Python would be an example of this), but they want it given to them because they’re useless gits. Also when they get it, they don’t expect to have to do any work.
They never got “real communism” because they never got the free ride they wanted.
This comment effectively summarizing the bait they put out to sucker people in, except in reality the whole thing is always a ploy to get everyone to give up control of their assets, upon which point they proceed instead transition into a slave system where the resources to pay off their bad debts and preserve their wealth and power are extracted instead.
The final stage of communism is the abolishment of the state and pray that basically everyone is communist enough to do the right thing and work as much as possible and hope that people are going to take the right amount of products that they need.
And that's the part that makes it retarded as an ideology. People need to be forced to work under penalty of death and they need to have a quality of life that makes death seem like a punishment rather than a reward.
I guess they're kind of vague on this. Sometimes they say there is a distinction between "personal property" and "property of the means of production". The latter they want to be publicly owned, or not owned by anyone.
Anarchist ("libertarian socialist") famously proclaimed "property is theft!" but I guess Marx argued a bit against this statement.
oligarchy claims to own everything,
Right again I don't think they'd call this Communism (but rather a kind of socialism?), although this may be what exists in practice.
Communism requires hard work
Maybe?
I think their view is maybe a distortion of seeing the minority of richest people who may work less and then thinking if the richest people's money was distributed evenly, then everyone would have a lot more leisure and less work to do than the billionaires today. It's a seductive vision that seems true at first glance, but if we did a hard reset like that with everyone's assets being equalized, inequalities would soon pop right back up if people have the freedom to work more or less or trade in different ways.
I think there's a lot of variation here, you have some "lazy commies" that are attracted to the idea because they just want gibs. You have some hardworking commies that are dedicated to the cause and want to work even more than they need to and to force others to do the same. It's another "seductive vision" here of a bunch of commies probably thinking work will be necessary but that they can "reform" the economy to more of a utopian state where the work conditions are great and there is less work to do.
But your comment inspired me to do a deep dive on Marxism / Communism because I feel like they may correctly identify problems (people want to have things like more freedom and prosperity) but then they just have the totally wrong solutions ("free" conditions that aren't so free; economics contrary to incentives; etc.).
I just want a world where I can get a woman, start a family and live long enough to die of natural causes and the free market doesn't seem capable of giving that to me. The sexual market needs to be heavily restricted if nothing else.
It's both not a free market and not really operating based on Christian principles...
Men have an edge in a free market so that regulates things some
Under patriarchy in Christianity that regulates things some
What we have is elite men pitting women against men with state feminism
and women encouraged not to obey with erroneous forms of "Christianity"
Sorry youre lonely. Be with friends and family maybe. Also take consolation in being free of the difficulties of relationships, even if you eventually get one.
Sometimes they say there is a distinction between "personal property" and "property of the means of production".
There’s nothing magical about communism that suddenly makes the claim to control property disappear, they just use a bunch of nonsense jargon to confuse people about it.
No, definitely. What I’m referring to is “small scale communism”, the type that is harmless to society at large and perfectly fine to be legal, where some small group, typically a family, shared property between themselves and everyone takes responsibility for some share of maintaining it.
Yes, the family structure is typically fairly communistic. The problem comes with scale.
Libertarians, whatever their flaws, have done a lot of good research into this subject. The Mises caucus and Tom Woods are likely to have a lot of good material.
But your comment inspired me to do a deep dive on Marxism / Communism because I feel like they may correctly identify problems (people want to have things like more freedom and prosperity) but then they just have the totally wrong solutions ("free" conditions that aren't so free; economics contrary to incentives; etc.).
Careful.
Make no mistake, communism/Socialism, as they are typically sold by despots and tyrants to the public, are pure evil. Modern liberalism does the same thing - correctly analyze a problem (typically one that they intentionally caused) then misallocate the blame and provide a terrible solution.
Never forget that Marx both raped and refused to pay (“exploited”) his maids, while parasitically living off any family member unwise enough to turn him away.
A lot of these people very literally use witchcraft (hypnosis, and mental confusion). Having on a very solid latching of the Armor of God is critical for study.
This stuff has been a plague on humanity for 200… or as Trump recently stated, 1000, years, for very good reasons. The people who push it are very good at corrupting unwary minds.
Calling in airdrops from u/FractalizingIron in case I’ve said something unclear that shouldn’t have been said, because I think I inadvertently created some confusion, myself.
Money is given, not earned, your effort has nothing to do with your income. The biggest flaw of democratic socialism is with the democratic part, not the socialist part, the masses can not be trusted to act in the best interests of the nation rather than just acting selfishly.
For some reason whenever "democratic socialism" i just hear "national socialist workers party" or just "Nazism"
They are all leftwing socialist a- holes. The difference between them are really just important to them.....
And New York Democrats are about to get a MASTER CLASS as to the Validity, and Consequential Affects, of this Reality…
Baffled by a Buffoon?
I was born a free man in a country governed by what you would call democratic socialistic society-system. Birth certificate issued by church and not the gov. Rule of law was common-law.
I made $10000 gross a month as a trucker. I got a 10% no tax off top and paid 51% tax on remainder. ($5900 to me)
This 49% funded 100% free education up to any level. 100% free health care incl dental. A superior unemployment and social assistance system with paid sick days (forget how many a year but quite a lot).
Moved to a capitalistic country and I made same base monthly wages and paid around 35% on gross. ($6500 to me)
We did a calculation to see what it would cost to achieve same coverage in new country vs old country. All could be covered at a cost via ins companies.($600)
Came out to precisely the same amount except in old country you did not have to argue with a crocked ins company who tried to weasel their way out of obligations.
Reg amount of rules-laws-acts and gov threats if you do not comply the capitalistic country won big time.
Lastly I like to mention that as a pensioner one will get X4 pension in the old country based on a 40 year tax table and get a vacation paid for once a year.
Most living in a capitalistic country has been brain washed to reject any system other than their own. Not their fault at all and one have to admit the ds done a splendid job.
Just my two cents worth.
Vladimir Lenin: 'The goal of socialism is communism.'
Not sure where this observation fits in to the conversation but:
Communism is a stateless (anarchy / anarchist) religionless (atheist) propertyless (anti-capitalist) society
These "Communist-style governments" appear to be some kind of transitionary revolutionary socialism I think (Not "true Communism" as some of the Commies want)
It's semantics I think for our side but sometimes important to note so they're not like "but it's not REAL COMMUNISM"
Communism totally has property. The oligarchy claims to own everything, including the people. The people own nothing, and are given less-than subsistence, and any resistance is attacked mercilessly.
Socialism is a step toward communism, by Marx’s own writings.
Democratic Socialism is socialism that is voted in by retards, instead of being violently imposed by a revolutionary army.
Everything else they describe it with is bullshit. The reason they say “real communism has never been tried” is because ACTUAL REAL COMMUNISM like they WANT, requires a lot of hard work to purchase the property that the communist collective would live on and use and self-govern (the mud farmers in Monty Python would be an example of this), but they want it given to them because they’re useless gits. Also when they get it, they don’t expect to have to do any work.
They never got “real communism” because they never got the free ride they wanted.
WAAAAAH
So tldr, communists are pro-slavery.
interesting
Free markets are slavery as well, men are forced to work under penalty of death.
This comment effectively summarizing the bait they put out to sucker people in, except in reality the whole thing is always a ploy to get everyone to give up control of their assets, upon which point they proceed instead transition into a slave system where the resources to pay off their bad debts and preserve their wealth and power are extracted instead.
Hence that meme I linked to.
Whoops.
And that's the part that makes it retarded as an ideology. People need to be forced to work under penalty of death and they need to have a quality of life that makes death seem like a punishment rather than a reward.
So same as under any other government?
And then the nation collapses as the work force dies off.
Again, same as under any government, those who resist are killed on the spot.
I guess they're kind of vague on this. Sometimes they say there is a distinction between "personal property" and "property of the means of production". The latter they want to be publicly owned, or not owned by anyone.
Anarchist ("libertarian socialist") famously proclaimed "property is theft!" but I guess Marx argued a bit against this statement.
Right again I don't think they'd call this Communism (but rather a kind of socialism?), although this may be what exists in practice.
Maybe?
I think their view is maybe a distortion of seeing the minority of richest people who may work less and then thinking if the richest people's money was distributed evenly, then everyone would have a lot more leisure and less work to do than the billionaires today. It's a seductive vision that seems true at first glance, but if we did a hard reset like that with everyone's assets being equalized, inequalities would soon pop right back up if people have the freedom to work more or less or trade in different ways.
I think there's a lot of variation here, you have some "lazy commies" that are attracted to the idea because they just want gibs. You have some hardworking commies that are dedicated to the cause and want to work even more than they need to and to force others to do the same. It's another "seductive vision" here of a bunch of commies probably thinking work will be necessary but that they can "reform" the economy to more of a utopian state where the work conditions are great and there is less work to do.
But your comment inspired me to do a deep dive on Marxism / Communism because I feel like they may correctly identify problems (people want to have things like more freedom and prosperity) but then they just have the totally wrong solutions ("free" conditions that aren't so free; economics contrary to incentives; etc.).
I just want a world where I can get a woman, start a family and live long enough to die of natural causes and the free market doesn't seem capable of giving that to me. The sexual market needs to be heavily restricted if nothing else.
It's both not a free market and not really operating based on Christian principles...
Men have an edge in a free market so that regulates things some
Under patriarchy in Christianity that regulates things some
What we have is elite men pitting women against men with state feminism
and women encouraged not to obey with erroneous forms of "Christianity"
Sorry youre lonely. Be with friends and family maybe. Also take consolation in being free of the difficulties of relationships, even if you eventually get one.
(My thoughts on these topix anyway)
There’s nothing magical about communism that suddenly makes the claim to control property disappear, they just use a bunch of nonsense jargon to confuse people about it.
https://greatawakening.win/p/199OB83Xfz/socialism-is-public-ownership-of/c/
No, definitely. What I’m referring to is “small scale communism”, the type that is harmless to society at large and perfectly fine to be legal, where some small group, typically a family, shared property between themselves and everyone takes responsibility for some share of maintaining it.
Yes, the family structure is typically fairly communistic. The problem comes with scale.
Libertarians, whatever their flaws, have done a lot of good research into this subject. The Mises caucus and Tom Woods are likely to have a lot of good material.
Careful.
Make no mistake, communism/Socialism, as they are typically sold by despots and tyrants to the public, are pure evil. Modern liberalism does the same thing - correctly analyze a problem (typically one that they intentionally caused) then misallocate the blame and provide a terrible solution.
Never forget that Marx both raped and refused to pay (“exploited”) his maids, while parasitically living off any family member unwise enough to turn him away.
A lot of these people very literally use witchcraft (hypnosis, and mental confusion). Having on a very solid latching of the Armor of God is critical for study.
This stuff has been a plague on humanity for 200… or as Trump recently stated, 1000, years, for very good reasons. The people who push it are very good at corrupting unwary minds.
Calling in airdrops from u/FractalizingIron in case I’ve said something unclear that shouldn’t have been said, because I think I inadvertently created some confusion, myself.
Marxist said that about the Soviet Union, after the NEP,was approved.
The state forcibly taking our money sounds a lot like the system right now. What am I missing?
Stop noticing.
Money is given, not earned, your effort has nothing to do with your income. The biggest flaw of democratic socialism is with the democratic part, not the socialist part, the masses can not be trusted to act in the best interests of the nation rather than just acting selfishly.
Or property.