You are talking about companion plantings. I don't grow stuff but I know about it. You plant something right next to it that will attract the pests mortal enemy.
What I actually do is use essential oils. It's expensive but well worth it.
We only have a hobby garden, and essential oils are a horrible idea, unless you like literally burning money.
We garden 1200- 2500 sq feet every year and even for that size E.O. are way too expensive. Companion planting is the way to go if you don't want to use pesticides. Cheap, easy, effective. Only reason you wouldn't is too lazy to research, and if that is the case, why are you gardening?
You grow marigolds, for example, intercropped with brassicas and it will keep both nematodes in the soil and aphids from destroying your crops.
Aphids show up during dry spells and they multiply into mass numbers overnight, they target flowers and new leaves over old leaves, which means they destroy cauliflower and broccoli more readily as these are young flower heads; and they suck juices out of the plant like vampires until its all wrinkly and dessicated and dead. And just killing them isn't enough, you leave their mushy slimey dead bodies over your crop. Once you get them, basically that plant is toast.
They say "spray them off" yea but that doesn't fix the problem. The problem is it's dry, the plant is dry, and the plant has a comrpomised immune system.
Also, its why they call brassicas (cabbage, brussels, broccoli, kale, etc) a 'cole' drop, cole as in cole slaw but also cole as in "COLD" they like spring winter fall but not summer, and have to be protected in summer
Marigolds also protect onions from black aphids versus the gray/white ones of brassicas. Nasturtium is a trap plant for them; and chamomile also is another flower that can protect from aphids as it draws hoverflies, which look like yellow jackets but they make incredible amounts of noise and stay completely static in one place, hence hover. They are actually very curious about people, and they will just hang out with you. Never hurt a hoverfly, or try, they're as fast as a dragonfly so good luck
source i am a subsistence farmer and master grower and try not to use weird ass digusting plasto-chemicals on food I'm going to eat later in the month
Thank you so much for the information. I am only trying to grow some herbs and I kept having problems. I like basil and mints. Mints are fine but my basil just don't work here in the south. Not sure why.
Not to be unnecessarily argumentative, but you said you use essential oils. "It's expensive but well worth it" (direct quote). The response was that it's too expensive to work at scale, even for a small to mid-sized home garden. You need a more cost effective method, and that's important feedback. If you ever start reading about organic home gardening, you hear a lot of what you just suggested, but the real-world experience of it from someone who's not a very wealthy hobby gardener is that it's not cost-effective.
For those of us interested in self-reliable, or having a back-up food supply, or wanting healthier food we know where it comes from, or wanting to teach our kids about work ethic... whatever our motivation, this is a worthy discussion to be having so we learn (or relearn) how to do it right.
I understand about the price tags. I don't actually grow much of anything except flowers and medicinal herbs. If I have to grow food and like you said, mid-sized home garden, it's not cost effective.
I do not know if they are available, I have had this patent bookmarked since 2013. Its now owned by Turtle Bear Holdings LLC under the name of the patentee, Paul Edward Stamets who is a well respected mycologist.
I should think it could be feasible on a large scale as it grows on wood. A few trees spread out on a huge agro field would hopefully spread this and with careful maintenance it would last for quite some time
Here are some more of his patents if anyone's interested? Wreckheads should like it as psilocybins get a mention.
This is quite true, I was stupid enough to take them a long time ago and they just about destroyed me, they closed my eyes and its taken over 30 years for me to get rid of their effects. There are a LOT like me around, belive it.
All these ag problems can be fixed through management. Fallow ground is terrible. Tilling is terrible. Over/continuous grazing is terrible. All these chemicals are terrible. All the above practices have led to massive amounts of soil erosion, soil compaction, loss of soil fungal networks, massive disruption to the natural nutrient and water cycles, and the loss of thousands and thousands of farms/producers.
They really screwed things up in the 40s and 50s with the implementation of chemical fertilizers and herbicides. Working WITH nature is so much more advantageous than working AGAINST it. Livestock need to be brought back onto crop land... itd be a game changer.
Lasers are an improvement from chemicals i feel like, but we wont know until they have been used for a few years.
These systems have been in development with live testing for years, if my memory serves. I read about it from time to time. As someone with a biology degree and who grew up in corn and soybeans country, it has always been something that catches my interest. How does it work? How reliable is the AI they use to detect weeds. How good are the robotics that aim and fire the lasers. Do they note damage to nearby crops that we do want to keep? What's the accuracy on the weed detection algorithm? Can you put it on a tractor, bumping and sliding on real dirt, drag it through the fields, and have it still work? etc.
From what I understand, they have fully functional tractor-mounted platforms now that do this, and with very high accuracy and low error tolerances. What's the cost? How much energy does the laser itself consume? etc? Is there a hobby-grade version for the home gardener? Are there any commercial grade products one can buy right now? Are there any legal concerns or permitting requirements with the use of these devices? No idea.
I agree on the idea of working with nature, but I think there's room for humans to innovate while doing this. It is, by definition, what farming (domesticating plants for food) is.
The lazers do sound, potentially, much more biologically friendly than the current approaches. It could be a step in a better direction. I just know we have seriously damaged our soils the last 80 or so years.
I am not saying this is THE solution, butI researched what farmers did before we had pesticides.
For bugs, they used soap first. Soap would kill a whole swath of bugs. For any bugs that remain, they used tobacco water. They would let tobacco leaves diffuse into water, then spray or pour on the plants. I saw in another post talk about NEEM oil. Yes it is really good at ridding the soil of bugs that attack the roots (nematoads) in the soil. NEEM is also good for cleansing our bile ducts.
The biggest problem I have in my backyard garden is earwigs. They ruin squash blossoms and some tomato blossoms too. Neem oil doesn't do a bit of good for them. I've found that a combination of veg oil in a small yogurt container as well as using diatomaceous earth (DE) around the perimeter of the plant is helpful. That's because I don't want to spray chemicals on the plant. On a larger scale, I can see how chemicals would be attractive. Never tried tobacco water though.
NEEM and oil of oregano CURED several fruit trees that were nearly dead from fire blight. One was an apple, and 2 were asian pears. The asian pear I had to cut down to the soil, and sprayed around the base and the roots, and then covered. I basicially considered it dead. Then I buried the debrid like 3' deep in an area that would never be dug up again. To my surprise they all survived, and didn't spread it to other trees. The asian pear I "killed" actually resprouted and is now 7' tall after several seasons and very strong plant. No fuit yet though. May need a companion to flower.
I also treated a very badly debarked (bear or cat) quince tree with neem and oregano and it healed. Finally, a witch hazel had a strange fungus on it and this combo helped it but hasn't fully removed it all. I am waiting to see what will happen this year. Witch hazel doesn't usually have this problem.
There are some good organic ways talked about in this thread but you have to remember the scale of production farming. Whatever we use has to be feasible to use on 10,000 acre farms. I have no idea how much energy a laser uses, I'm no rocket surgeon, but I feel like that would be a limiting factor. Not that I don't support this, I'm just not smart enough to know the ins and outs. I know propane fire is used on larger organic farms. Tractor pulls an implement that burns vegetation in between the crop rows. Biggest problem with it is that it still leaves weeds that are growing withing the crop row, as in pest plant growing right next to crop plant within the row itself. Not a huge deal but if they go to seed it's a never ending battle. (or spread via rhizomes)
A big part of the problem with bugs is those 10,000 acre farms. It removes all biodiversity and is a big blinking light attracting anything that feeds on that crop. The answer is to go back to community farming - smaller, biodiverse farms raising multiple crops and livestock for their local community. A good farm is a healthy ecosystem - animal manure feeds the crops, crops feed the livestock etc. And if you're raising for the local community, you eliminate much of the transportation costs. Bring back Victory Gardens too!
I hear this a lot, and generally agree on the principle. But I will offer this:
The numbers matter. The economics matter. There is a limited amount of arable land available to humans on this planet, and we need to feed 8-11 billion of us (11 billion is what they project by 2050 and a "stable" global population now). In order to do that, we must have economies of scale. We need to be able to produce huge quantities of food cheaply and reliably. The green revolution and mono-cropping allows us to do that in ways the old model could never have sustained. It's simply a matter of overall productivity.
Given that reality of the sheer demand for food our population imposes, I think there's a place to marry the two ideas. We can utilize both, with the home gardens being a supplement to, and reserve food supply for, industrial production. It's comparable to trusting the power company to supply your electricity at scale, but having a generator at home for emergencies, extra batteries on hand, and maybe a solar device or two.
Other technology that exists is AI cameras to detect weeds and spray on the weeds only, thus reducing the need for widespread applications. Also, nitrogen fertilizer microbes (Envita40 I believe it's called) help fix the nitrogen from the air much the same as legumes do and thus reducing the amount of nitrogen applied to a crop. Lots of good technology if they can get the price point down. We export around 50% of what we grow in the US, so I'm not worried about our access to food here
Find the closest agricultural radio station on the am dial and start listening to it when driving. You'll soon find stories and web sites you may want to check out and learn even more. There's quite a bit to commercial agriculture and it's definitely advised to get a degree in that field if it's what you want to do
Lasers to kill weeds my arse. Myceliums have been developed years ago that attract pests to them and kill them, here is the patent.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7122176
You are talking about companion plantings. I don't grow stuff but I know about it. You plant something right next to it that will attract the pests mortal enemy.
What I actually do is use essential oils. It's expensive but well worth it.
We only have a hobby garden, and essential oils are a horrible idea, unless you like literally burning money.
We garden 1200- 2500 sq feet every year and even for that size E.O. are way too expensive. Companion planting is the way to go if you don't want to use pesticides. Cheap, easy, effective. Only reason you wouldn't is too lazy to research, and if that is the case, why are you gardening?
I don't grow much of anything. I know about companion planting.
You grow marigolds, for example, intercropped with brassicas and it will keep both nematodes in the soil and aphids from destroying your crops.
Aphids show up during dry spells and they multiply into mass numbers overnight, they target flowers and new leaves over old leaves, which means they destroy cauliflower and broccoli more readily as these are young flower heads; and they suck juices out of the plant like vampires until its all wrinkly and dessicated and dead. And just killing them isn't enough, you leave their mushy slimey dead bodies over your crop. Once you get them, basically that plant is toast.
They say "spray them off" yea but that doesn't fix the problem. The problem is it's dry, the plant is dry, and the plant has a comrpomised immune system.
Also, its why they call brassicas (cabbage, brussels, broccoli, kale, etc) a 'cole' drop, cole as in cole slaw but also cole as in "COLD" they like spring winter fall but not summer, and have to be protected in summer
Marigolds also protect onions from black aphids versus the gray/white ones of brassicas. Nasturtium is a trap plant for them; and chamomile also is another flower that can protect from aphids as it draws hoverflies, which look like yellow jackets but they make incredible amounts of noise and stay completely static in one place, hence hover. They are actually very curious about people, and they will just hang out with you. Never hurt a hoverfly, or try, they're as fast as a dragonfly so good luck
source i am a subsistence farmer and master grower and try not to use weird ass digusting plasto-chemicals on food I'm going to eat later in the month
Thank you so much for the information. I am only trying to grow some herbs and I kept having problems. I like basil and mints. Mints are fine but my basil just don't work here in the south. Not sure why.
Not to be unnecessarily argumentative, but you said you use essential oils. "It's expensive but well worth it" (direct quote). The response was that it's too expensive to work at scale, even for a small to mid-sized home garden. You need a more cost effective method, and that's important feedback. If you ever start reading about organic home gardening, you hear a lot of what you just suggested, but the real-world experience of it from someone who's not a very wealthy hobby gardener is that it's not cost-effective.
For those of us interested in self-reliable, or having a back-up food supply, or wanting healthier food we know where it comes from, or wanting to teach our kids about work ethic... whatever our motivation, this is a worthy discussion to be having so we learn (or relearn) how to do it right.
I understand about the price tags. I don't actually grow much of anything except flowers and medicinal herbs. If I have to grow food and like you said, mid-sized home garden, it's not cost effective.
Not really B_D, the mycelium itself is their mortal enemy. But as you say essential oils are good. Neem Oil.
Is there any commercial brand you know that could help?
I prefer your method.
Yes , lasers … hmmmm, what could go wrong????
I like this but are they being used effectively anywhere? Is it feasible on a large scale?
I do not know if they are available, I have had this patent bookmarked since 2013. Its now owned by Turtle Bear Holdings LLC under the name of the patentee, Paul Edward Stamets who is a well respected mycologist.
I should think it could be feasible on a large scale as it grows on wood. A few trees spread out on a huge agro field would hopefully spread this and with careful maintenance it would last for quite some time
Here are some more of his patents if anyone's interested? Wreckheads should like it as psilocybins get a mention.
https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Paul+Edward+Stamets
Hm! Must have never had your eyes opened with psychedelics.
This is quite true, I was stupid enough to take them a long time ago and they just about destroyed me, they closed my eyes and its taken over 30 years for me to get rid of their effects. There are a LOT like me around, belive it.
Damn, that would suck to just...fail at the psychedelic experience and to never get what it is.
All these ag problems can be fixed through management. Fallow ground is terrible. Tilling is terrible. Over/continuous grazing is terrible. All these chemicals are terrible. All the above practices have led to massive amounts of soil erosion, soil compaction, loss of soil fungal networks, massive disruption to the natural nutrient and water cycles, and the loss of thousands and thousands of farms/producers.
They really screwed things up in the 40s and 50s with the implementation of chemical fertilizers and herbicides. Working WITH nature is so much more advantageous than working AGAINST it. Livestock need to be brought back onto crop land... itd be a game changer.
Lasers are an improvement from chemicals i feel like, but we wont know until they have been used for a few years.
Always test before conclusion. True.
These systems have been in development with live testing for years, if my memory serves. I read about it from time to time. As someone with a biology degree and who grew up in corn and soybeans country, it has always been something that catches my interest. How does it work? How reliable is the AI they use to detect weeds. How good are the robotics that aim and fire the lasers. Do they note damage to nearby crops that we do want to keep? What's the accuracy on the weed detection algorithm? Can you put it on a tractor, bumping and sliding on real dirt, drag it through the fields, and have it still work? etc.
From what I understand, they have fully functional tractor-mounted platforms now that do this, and with very high accuracy and low error tolerances. What's the cost? How much energy does the laser itself consume? etc? Is there a hobby-grade version for the home gardener? Are there any commercial grade products one can buy right now? Are there any legal concerns or permitting requirements with the use of these devices? No idea.
I agree on the idea of working with nature, but I think there's room for humans to innovate while doing this. It is, by definition, what farming (domesticating plants for food) is.
The lazers do sound, potentially, much more biologically friendly than the current approaches. It could be a step in a better direction. I just know we have seriously damaged our soils the last 80 or so years.
I am not saying this is THE solution, butI researched what farmers did before we had pesticides. For bugs, they used soap first. Soap would kill a whole swath of bugs. For any bugs that remain, they used tobacco water. They would let tobacco leaves diffuse into water, then spray or pour on the plants. I saw in another post talk about NEEM oil. Yes it is really good at ridding the soil of bugs that attack the roots (nematoads) in the soil. NEEM is also good for cleansing our bile ducts.
I know about tobacco also.
The biggest problem I have in my backyard garden is earwigs. They ruin squash blossoms and some tomato blossoms too. Neem oil doesn't do a bit of good for them. I've found that a combination of veg oil in a small yogurt container as well as using diatomaceous earth (DE) around the perimeter of the plant is helpful. That's because I don't want to spray chemicals on the plant. On a larger scale, I can see how chemicals would be attractive. Never tried tobacco water though.
NEEM and oil of oregano CURED several fruit trees that were nearly dead from fire blight. One was an apple, and 2 were asian pears. The asian pear I had to cut down to the soil, and sprayed around the base and the roots, and then covered. I basicially considered it dead. Then I buried the debrid like 3' deep in an area that would never be dug up again. To my surprise they all survived, and didn't spread it to other trees. The asian pear I "killed" actually resprouted and is now 7' tall after several seasons and very strong plant. No fuit yet though. May need a companion to flower.
I also treated a very badly debarked (bear or cat) quince tree with neem and oregano and it healed. Finally, a witch hazel had a strange fungus on it and this combo helped it but hasn't fully removed it all. I am waiting to see what will happen this year. Witch hazel doesn't usually have this problem.
Without restoring our soils, we still have an almost sterile medium for growing our foods & animals.
Oh yeah, soil flora and fauna.
There are some good organic ways talked about in this thread but you have to remember the scale of production farming. Whatever we use has to be feasible to use on 10,000 acre farms. I have no idea how much energy a laser uses, I'm no rocket surgeon, but I feel like that would be a limiting factor. Not that I don't support this, I'm just not smart enough to know the ins and outs. I know propane fire is used on larger organic farms. Tractor pulls an implement that burns vegetation in between the crop rows. Biggest problem with it is that it still leaves weeds that are growing withing the crop row, as in pest plant growing right next to crop plant within the row itself. Not a huge deal but if they go to seed it's a never ending battle. (or spread via rhizomes)
A big part of the problem with bugs is those 10,000 acre farms. It removes all biodiversity and is a big blinking light attracting anything that feeds on that crop. The answer is to go back to community farming - smaller, biodiverse farms raising multiple crops and livestock for their local community. A good farm is a healthy ecosystem - animal manure feeds the crops, crops feed the livestock etc. And if you're raising for the local community, you eliminate much of the transportation costs. Bring back Victory Gardens too!
I hear this a lot, and generally agree on the principle. But I will offer this:
The numbers matter. The economics matter. There is a limited amount of arable land available to humans on this planet, and we need to feed 8-11 billion of us (11 billion is what they project by 2050 and a "stable" global population now). In order to do that, we must have economies of scale. We need to be able to produce huge quantities of food cheaply and reliably. The green revolution and mono-cropping allows us to do that in ways the old model could never have sustained. It's simply a matter of overall productivity.
Given that reality of the sheer demand for food our population imposes, I think there's a place to marry the two ideas. We can utilize both, with the home gardens being a supplement to, and reserve food supply for, industrial production. It's comparable to trusting the power company to supply your electricity at scale, but having a generator at home for emergencies, extra batteries on hand, and maybe a solar device or two.
Lots of good consideration.
Other technology that exists is AI cameras to detect weeds and spray on the weeds only, thus reducing the need for widespread applications. Also, nitrogen fertilizer microbes (Envita40 I believe it's called) help fix the nitrogen from the air much the same as legumes do and thus reducing the amount of nitrogen applied to a crop. Lots of good technology if they can get the price point down. We export around 50% of what we grow in the US, so I'm not worried about our access to food here
So many people here know a lot. I don't know much about agriculture.
Find the closest agricultural radio station on the am dial and start listening to it when driving. You'll soon find stories and web sites you may want to check out and learn even more. There's quite a bit to commercial agriculture and it's definitely advised to get a degree in that field if it's what you want to do
Oh, I only want to grow some herbs. Somebody else can grow my carrots for me. LOL