hmm. Let me think. What could they possibly want to build in the area where the low income homes are. What a mess though. Gov is notorious for not attending to Super Site chemical pollution. They'd have to clean it up before they could build on it anew.
So maybe this is actually not bogus.
This is a lame article. I want to know what chemicals are in that tank. Did the reporter even try to ask a facility manager that simple question? This sounds like drummed up fear to move people out of their homes, focus attention an event, and then somewhere else, close by, the deep state is shredding old voter ballots. This might be a simple slight of hand.
My brother is only a couple of blocks away from that plant and was evacuated with his kids. It's the area where I grew up. Some reporters are just lazy. I hope the following will fill in some of those gaps for you.
The chemical in the pressurized tank is methyl methacrylate MMA. It's a monomer used to make acrylics. The incident is at an aerospace company that makes the canopies for the F-35 along with other planes. The MMA is thought to have already started catalyzing in the tank which is raising the temp and the pressure. There is a risk for thermal runaway once it reaches a threshold temp.
Last night they managed to get a crew in to manually read the gauge that monitors the internal temp for the MMA in the tank. This gauge was not visible by using drones with thermal imaging. This morning's reading canceled last night's optimistic outlook that relied on the drone imaging. They found that the internal versus external tank temp differed by around 13 degrees C. 90 degrees C versus 77 degrees C, respectively. They say the temp is rising about one degree C per hour. The boiling point for MMA is at 101 degrees C.
Pressure is also building due to the reaction and there was some external pealing of the tank. That may explain why the tank was alleged to have started bulging when all this started. Things got worse last night when they discovered that they could not offload a neutralizing agent in the failing tank because the valves had broken and were gummed up - meaning some catalyzing process appears to have already begun and the MMA polymerized in the valves. The neutralizing agent would have killed the reaction. This revised outlook may be why they expanded the evacuation zone. Cooling the tank externally is all they are able to do at the moment. The hope is to cool it down enough to slow the reaction down and control the pressure by slowing down the cure rate.
My understanding is that this stuff is pressurized and if goes into thermal runaway it could be a nasty explosion. Not sure how far the explosion or the subsequent shock wave damage would extend. My brother's house is only a couple of blocks from this place. I worry that if it does explode, his home could be damaged from the shock wave. I have not heard any chemical experts so far give any estimations of the possible damage range. The city emergency management I am sure have gotten some expert estimates by now. I doubt it would be released to the public. If the stuff leaks out and hits air, as in a tank rupture spill, that has some pretty toxic fumes. The authorities have already taken containment measures in case of a spill. When they evacuated everyone I think in the beginning it more for toxic fume concerns versus explosion. I have to give them credit. They evacuated immediately. Not like LA where it would have been damage control after the fact counting the bodies.
I remember when I was in HS near the area, a couple of blocks from the current incident, the gas station on the corner exploded about a half block from my school. Blew out windows and doors for quite a distance away from the blast. Several windows at the school were blown out. Thank goodness this didn't happen during the day when school was in session. That could have been really bad.
It happened during the winter and the station attendant was in the office with a small space heater setting on the floor running. At the same time a fuel tanker was making a delivery and pumping gas into the underground storage tanks. They speculate that the heater was probably faulty and it exploded the low hanging fumes that escaped from when the tanks were being filled. The attendant and two other people in the office were killed. The driver of the fuel tanker survived. He was thrown clean away from the site. Had some broken bones and some lacerations, but lived to tell about it. The station was destroyed. Used to see the wreckage every day when I walked to school. They didn't rebuild the station. They tore up all the wreckage and hauled it away leaving a vacant corner lot.
There are so many surrounding neighborhoods there. Even some very nice close neighborhoods. Bunch of CA million dollar home specials!! I bet the board of this company and some insurance companies are shitting themselves right now
Yes. That area in Orange County is a bit of a mix. Where the plant is located it's in a mixed business industrial zone with a residential area on the east. Besides the industrial area, those homes, about 100 of them, will have severe damage if that thing decides to blow. There are expensive areas and more modest areas right next to each other. I never thought anything of it growing up. From one street to the next you could be in a completely different economic level of homes.
The blast radius around the plant goes from severe to light damage. My brother's house is just southwest of the outer most radius ring for estimated damage - but just barely. If it explodes more violently his home could be in danger. Scary for the people that had to be evacuated not knowing. The plan right now is to keep cooling it with water and let the stuff polymerize slowly to avoid both an explosion or a tank failure causing a leak. Not sure how long that would take, but that would be the best outcome except for the wait. People are getting impatient. Not too good for people with animals that don't have a friend or relative to take them in. There are hotels/motels next to Knott's Berry Farm and Disneyland. But good luck on a holiday weekend trying for find a room that isn't already booked. Rooms are not cheap, even though they claimed to have reduced rates for evacuees. Many won't let you have pets and most of the shelters won't take animals either.
I have a big cabin tent that goes up quickly. It's got those telescopic poles so it goes up in about a minute or two - especially with two people. Plus there's a lot of other gear that doesn't take me long to load up if I had to. Done a lot of camping over the years. Could survive quite nicely off grid for a little while if I had to. I sure as hell would not leave my furry little buddy behind. Hell, I'd sleep in my Jeep if I had to.
Agreed that the company board and their insurance carrier need some Depends right about now. I read that the company has had some issues in the past over some safety issues. Most of it looked like more administrative types of correction. Like paperwork not filled out right or timely. Some of the physical stuff appeared to be fairly minor things to be corrected. It happens. I used to do inspections in health care for my state. Usually if something is serious the inspectors will shut a place down if it's a serious safety/health issue.
Found this and it gives a map of the blast zone around the plant. It rates severe, moderate, and light damage. Those north of the blast are also at risk of chemical exposure. It's from the main paper in Orange County - The Register. My brother's house is just southwest of the blast zone. Barely.
It's been so long since I lived there, trying to remember how anything is oriented took me a few. Around where the company is located is an industrial/business area on the N/W/S. A residential area is to the east and has about 100 homes. They are all in the severe blast damage zone. Moderate area has residential and businesses. I think there is an elementary school as well. Anyway, let's pray that thing doesn't blow and that they can keep it cool enough that the reaction will slow down and harden on its own. No leak and no explosion. It will only get to 70 degrees tomorrow and then in the 60's for several days. That should help.
The possible sequence is a pressure burst of the tank, followed by massive outflow of MMA, and then potentially an ignition / deflagration of the cloud creating another blast.
There’s another full tank of this stuff right next to the faulty one as well. Even parts of the 405 and 22 freeways on this evac map. These surrounding areas are extremely populated. I’d hate to be living north of it. If it blows the “what if” factor of having this chemical in the air is going to cause a shit storm. Pray it doesn’t happen. Lots of good people in these areas
Molecular weight of MMA is about 100, which is over 3x that of atmospheric constituents, so it is likely to hang close to the ground until mixing dilutes it. If it comes out hot, that may be enough to create a rising plume. Permissible/recommended exposure level is 100 ppm, so there needs to be a dilution factor of 10,000. Pay attention to the prevailing wind. I don't know enough to hope that a Santa Ana may show up. Good luck and God bless.
Hopefully they can cool the tanks enough to keep it from going into thermal runaway. The boiling point I believe is 101 degrees C. Last I heard the internal MMA temp was at 90 degrees C. Their goal is to let it catalyze slowly until the reaction peters out. No explosion and no leak. Not sure how long that process is estimated to take however. Haven't heard anyone talk about it so far. I believe the plume path is calculated to go north of the plant - at least at the current moment and subject to change. The air temp tomorrow is supposed to be about 70 degrees for a couple of days and then drop into the 60's for a few more days before it climbs back up into the mid to high 70's later in the week. That should help versus 80 plus weather. Wind speeds are estimated to be from about 2 to 12mph out of WSW and South.
For sure. My brother is on the southwestern side of this. He and his two kids had to evacuate. Lots of homes surrounding the industrial/business area where the plant is located. I grew up in the area. You hear things in the news happening to different areas all the time, but when it hits a place you are very familiar with it makes it all so real.
This has comms written all over it. Trump/Vance return briskly to WH, gunman attempts something. Israel/Netanyahu "hair on fire" after being iced-out... then a "catasptrophic" "toxic" event in OC... I'd say watch for what comes out about SoCal in the next week. Info drop - Politicos/Agents being outed shortly.
I grew up in the area. There are pockets of low income Hispanic areas, but most of it is pretty nice. My brother and his kids are in the evacuation zone. I went to HS close by. Most of the area is middle class.
hmm. Let me think. What could they possibly want to build in the area where the low income homes are. What a mess though. Gov is notorious for not attending to Super Site chemical pollution. They'd have to clean it up before they could build on it anew. So maybe this is actually not bogus.
This is a lame article. I want to know what chemicals are in that tank. Did the reporter even try to ask a facility manager that simple question? This sounds like drummed up fear to move people out of their homes, focus attention an event, and then somewhere else, close by, the deep state is shredding old voter ballots. This might be a simple slight of hand.
My brother is only a couple of blocks away from that plant and was evacuated with his kids. It's the area where I grew up. Some reporters are just lazy. I hope the following will fill in some of those gaps for you.
The chemical in the pressurized tank is methyl methacrylate MMA. It's a monomer used to make acrylics. The incident is at an aerospace company that makes the canopies for the F-35 along with other planes. The MMA is thought to have already started catalyzing in the tank which is raising the temp and the pressure. There is a risk for thermal runaway once it reaches a threshold temp.
Last night they managed to get a crew in to manually read the gauge that monitors the internal temp for the MMA in the tank. This gauge was not visible by using drones with thermal imaging. This morning's reading canceled last night's optimistic outlook that relied on the drone imaging. They found that the internal versus external tank temp differed by around 13 degrees C. 90 degrees C versus 77 degrees C, respectively. They say the temp is rising about one degree C per hour. The boiling point for MMA is at 101 degrees C.
Pressure is also building due to the reaction and there was some external pealing of the tank. That may explain why the tank was alleged to have started bulging when all this started. Things got worse last night when they discovered that they could not offload a neutralizing agent in the failing tank because the valves had broken and were gummed up - meaning some catalyzing process appears to have already begun and the MMA polymerized in the valves. The neutralizing agent would have killed the reaction. This revised outlook may be why they expanded the evacuation zone. Cooling the tank externally is all they are able to do at the moment. The hope is to cool it down enough to slow the reaction down and control the pressure by slowing down the cure rate.
Thanks for the update! By any chance do you know if this is gonna be a big boom or a fizzle with huge amounts of noxious gas released?
My understanding is that this stuff is pressurized and if goes into thermal runaway it could be a nasty explosion. Not sure how far the explosion or the subsequent shock wave damage would extend. My brother's house is only a couple of blocks from this place. I worry that if it does explode, his home could be damaged from the shock wave. I have not heard any chemical experts so far give any estimations of the possible damage range. The city emergency management I am sure have gotten some expert estimates by now. I doubt it would be released to the public. If the stuff leaks out and hits air, as in a tank rupture spill, that has some pretty toxic fumes. The authorities have already taken containment measures in case of a spill. When they evacuated everyone I think in the beginning it more for toxic fume concerns versus explosion. I have to give them credit. They evacuated immediately. Not like LA where it would have been damage control after the fact counting the bodies.
I remember when I was in HS near the area, a couple of blocks from the current incident, the gas station on the corner exploded about a half block from my school. Blew out windows and doors for quite a distance away from the blast. Several windows at the school were blown out. Thank goodness this didn't happen during the day when school was in session. That could have been really bad.
It happened during the winter and the station attendant was in the office with a small space heater setting on the floor running. At the same time a fuel tanker was making a delivery and pumping gas into the underground storage tanks. They speculate that the heater was probably faulty and it exploded the low hanging fumes that escaped from when the tanks were being filled. The attendant and two other people in the office were killed. The driver of the fuel tanker survived. He was thrown clean away from the site. Had some broken bones and some lacerations, but lived to tell about it. The station was destroyed. Used to see the wreckage every day when I walked to school. They didn't rebuild the station. They tore up all the wreckage and hauled it away leaving a vacant corner lot.
Thanks, fren.
You are most welcome fren.
There are so many surrounding neighborhoods there. Even some very nice close neighborhoods. Bunch of CA million dollar home specials!! I bet the board of this company and some insurance companies are shitting themselves right now
Yes. That area in Orange County is a bit of a mix. Where the plant is located it's in a mixed business industrial zone with a residential area on the east. Besides the industrial area, those homes, about 100 of them, will have severe damage if that thing decides to blow. There are expensive areas and more modest areas right next to each other. I never thought anything of it growing up. From one street to the next you could be in a completely different economic level of homes.
The blast radius around the plant goes from severe to light damage. My brother's house is just southwest of the outer most radius ring for estimated damage - but just barely. If it explodes more violently his home could be in danger. Scary for the people that had to be evacuated not knowing. The plan right now is to keep cooling it with water and let the stuff polymerize slowly to avoid both an explosion or a tank failure causing a leak. Not sure how long that would take, but that would be the best outcome except for the wait. People are getting impatient. Not too good for people with animals that don't have a friend or relative to take them in. There are hotels/motels next to Knott's Berry Farm and Disneyland. But good luck on a holiday weekend trying for find a room that isn't already booked. Rooms are not cheap, even though they claimed to have reduced rates for evacuees. Many won't let you have pets and most of the shelters won't take animals either.
I have a big cabin tent that goes up quickly. It's got those telescopic poles so it goes up in about a minute or two - especially with two people. Plus there's a lot of other gear that doesn't take me long to load up if I had to. Done a lot of camping over the years. Could survive quite nicely off grid for a little while if I had to. I sure as hell would not leave my furry little buddy behind. Hell, I'd sleep in my Jeep if I had to.
Agreed that the company board and their insurance carrier need some Depends right about now. I read that the company has had some issues in the past over some safety issues. Most of it looked like more administrative types of correction. Like paperwork not filled out right or timely. Some of the physical stuff appeared to be fairly minor things to be corrected. It happens. I used to do inspections in health care for my state. Usually if something is serious the inspectors will shut a place down if it's a serious safety/health issue.
Found this and it gives a map of the blast zone around the plant. It rates severe, moderate, and light damage. Those north of the blast are also at risk of chemical exposure. It's from the main paper in Orange County - The Register. My brother's house is just southwest of the blast zone. Barely.
It's been so long since I lived there, trying to remember how anything is oriented took me a few. Around where the company is located is an industrial/business area on the N/W/S. A residential area is to the east and has about 100 homes. They are all in the severe blast damage zone. Moderate area has residential and businesses. I think there is an elementary school as well. Anyway, let's pray that thing doesn't blow and that they can keep it cool enough that the reaction will slow down and harden on its own. No leak and no explosion. It will only get to 70 degrees tomorrow and then in the 60's for several days. That should help.
Map: Potential Garden Grove tank explosion blast zone shows where homes, businesses could be damaged
The possible sequence is a pressure burst of the tank, followed by massive outflow of MMA, and then potentially an ignition / deflagration of the cloud creating another blast.
There’s another full tank of this stuff right next to the faulty one as well. Even parts of the 405 and 22 freeways on this evac map. These surrounding areas are extremely populated. I’d hate to be living north of it. If it blows the “what if” factor of having this chemical in the air is going to cause a shit storm. Pray it doesn’t happen. Lots of good people in these areas
Molecular weight of MMA is about 100, which is over 3x that of atmospheric constituents, so it is likely to hang close to the ground until mixing dilutes it. If it comes out hot, that may be enough to create a rising plume. Permissible/recommended exposure level is 100 ppm, so there needs to be a dilution factor of 10,000. Pay attention to the prevailing wind. I don't know enough to hope that a Santa Ana may show up. Good luck and God bless.
Hopefully they can cool the tanks enough to keep it from going into thermal runaway. The boiling point I believe is 101 degrees C. Last I heard the internal MMA temp was at 90 degrees C. Their goal is to let it catalyze slowly until the reaction peters out. No explosion and no leak. Not sure how long that process is estimated to take however. Haven't heard anyone talk about it so far. I believe the plume path is calculated to go north of the plant - at least at the current moment and subject to change. The air temp tomorrow is supposed to be about 70 degrees for a couple of days and then drop into the 60's for a few more days before it climbs back up into the mid to high 70's later in the week. That should help versus 80 plus weather. Wind speeds are estimated to be from about 2 to 12mph out of WSW and South.
For sure. My brother is on the southwestern side of this. He and his two kids had to evacuate. Lots of homes surrounding the industrial/business area where the plant is located. I grew up in the area. You hear things in the news happening to different areas all the time, but when it hits a place you are very familiar with it makes it all so real.
methyl methacrylate. That shit is no joke. The tank is going to explode due to a thermal runaway. MMA is crazy volital.
And here I am, cynical enough to think Newsome is looking for a cash injection of federal emergency funds for his campaign.
Nah, I'm sure that faggot had an angle. Don't let a good disaster go to waste.
My brother's house is only a couple of blocks away from that place. He and his kids had to evacuate.
This has comms written all over it. Trump/Vance return briskly to WH, gunman attempts something. Israel/Netanyahu "hair on fire" after being iced-out... then a "catasptrophic" "toxic" event in OC... I'd say watch for what comes out about SoCal in the next week. Info drop - Politicos/Agents being outed shortly.
Amazing up-to-date and thorough entry from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Grove_chemical_leak
This is bad from several directions: runaway reaction, toxicity, deflagration hazard.
Pretty sure this facility is in a low income area. Gavin could GAF.
I grew up in the area. There are pockets of low income Hispanic areas, but most of it is pretty nice. My brother and his kids are in the evacuation zone. I went to HS close by. Most of the area is middle class.