I'm not a pipeline expert, but I've been doing computers sense the early 90s. You have a pipe. It has pumps and valves. You have a computer that controls it all. The computer gets hacked. UNPLUG THE DAM COMPUTER... and plug in another one. Then restart the pumps. If they are too incompetent to figure out a workaround then get the hell out of the way and let someone else try.
If there is one thing I've learned with computers its that the guy at the console is god. There is no such thing as taking over from a remote location. Anyone that tells you differently has been watching too many movies. Send real actual human beings out the the pumps, unplug the dam computer and just turn the pump on manually. Yeah, a person might have to watch the pressure and flow rates etc rather than the computer. So the hell what. Get the dam gas flowing again morons.
Forgive me but I'm a unix admin. Ransomware and viruses don't really work on FreeBSD. I stopped using winblows like 10 years ago. If these idiots running this pipeline are too stupid to build their control systems on a real OS then we know the problem don't we.
This is categorically false, and really sheds light on what you know vs what you think you know. There are certainly fewer exploits to take advantage of in *nix systems, but you don't need an exploit, whether hardware, software, or operator, to wreak havoc on a system or network of systems.
Please... do link to a "virus" that works on FreeBSD. I'll wait.
You can install things like root kits if you get root access, but as a person who has spent DECADES on the console of unix machines all you have to do to fix that is unplug the network cable and fix it. Sure it can take 24-48 hours to fix depending on how long they've had root, how good your backups are, etc, but the idea that it couldn't be fixed quickly is just silly.
Winblows on the other hand... LOL... SMH... Its like it was designed to be compromised. The most hilarious part is windows recently has started using pieces and parts of unix to increase its security.
I just reread what you said... I don't need an exploit? So if they aren't attacking the routers, which are hard as hell to attack in the first place... What you said makes no sense. There has to be some gap in their security that was exploited. Otherwise everything would be fine.
Look I ran a company that provided unix shells to hackers. I never got rooted. I know how this shit works. There is a right way and a wrong way to secure computers.
Whatever....
Read my post below. Updoot for you.
I have three 25 plus year IT experts here at work. I'm not a techie but I showed them both Comments and they agree with Darwyn. And they stood there for 20 minutes and came up with 3 ways to make this shit all work.
You guys fight about it. Computers are so awesome they stole.an entire globes worth of nations with them.
Also they called you an idiot for saying it was categorically false... just passing it on.
Kek...
True, but I sadly have seen a lot of Gov't stuff run off windows boxes and servers, although it typically is local municipalities and not anything as large as a pipeline company. I am curious what systems they use.
I believe some Navy systems are STILL on Windows XP
I work for the gov in a 'tech-ish' job. Everything we use is microsoft ... everything.
Then you should know that corporate america doesn't run on BSD or *nix. And it's not even a technically operable alternative 90% of the time.
As an adversary (pentester), I give zero fucks about your workstation OS. I want your credentials. And yes, I am absolutely targeting you, because the people with keys to the kingdom run *nix. And I always bet they're arrogant enough to not have a top-tier endpoint security tool, which gives me more options to pre-place my malicious garbage I'll pivot off of.
Now give me one admin or DevOps monkey with sa or dba privileges through an API and it doesn't really matter that the critical data is on a *nix server, it's hosed anyway.
Damn I starting to.think you are all arrogant fans. I trust tech less now than ever.
It is truly terrifying how little thought our tech overlords give to practical cybersecurity.
Job security for those of us in the sector, though...
If you don't have root on the unix server you don't control jack shit and you know it. Hacking admin rights on a database might allow you to break shit in the control structure sure, but root can remove you in a matter of hours. Data bases can be reloaded. Passwords can be reset. etc etc etc. These stupid winblows machines half the times its not the database that is hacked its the machine itself. The fucking OS is shit and you know it.
And yes I know much of corporate America doesn't run unix based servers. Cause their fucking idiots. They believe the sales pitch of the Microsoft or Google guy. Worse they are getting a kickback. If they are so awesome how come they are getting hacked all the time?
That's a joke right? You seriously think there is a job that a microsoft server can do that unix can't? My first PC ran SCO Xenix BTW. A 386DX16. Unix is what the entire internet was built on. My first time wasn't on the "internet" it was called PeachNet and at the time Windows didn't even have a way to access it. I used UUCP. Winblows was just an afterthought with flashy graphics and our overlord's approval because they could use it to control us. Wake the fuck up.
(Re-reading what you said has me confused. You seem to contradict yourself.)
Yeah, that's not what I'm driving at. FWIW, it's all been Linux on my personal machines since 1999. (Xenix can suck my ass, I felt that pain too.)
Corporate America = MS Office and client/server apps that are Windows-only. Few corps have purely web-based apps that meet all their business needs. Active Directory is king of the Identity Providers. ISV (prepackaged, turnkey, vendor-controlled) systems that use a GUI are generally Windows- because *nix simply doesn't have a cohesive, stable desktop environment, and no vendor wants to recode everything every two years because a bunch of college kids decide to swap out the WM or throw out GTK2 compatibility when they make GTK3. Micro$oft is unavoidable.
When I pentest, I'm not always interested in getting root. I don't need it most of the time. Being able to find an open service where I can put a piece of malware and point target machines at to fetch is a typical goal. Because it's *nix, it will be a stable repository or C2 node. 99% of the time, there won't be an antimalware engine on that machine that will blow it away, and it's usually considered a trusted machine so there are favorable network ACLs giving its communications carte blanche access. A perfect foothold.
If I can traverse through the service to grab a copy of a keytab or ssh keyring I can use to pass the hash, awesome, that's bonus loot. If there's a DBMS with a vulnerability, it rarely matters what OS it's on; I attack the service, regardless of how secure the OS is. And realistically, unless you're watching SELinux logs 24x7 (who the hell has time for that), you're not going to even know I'm there.
Now take everything I said and recognize that within a corp infrastructure, 10% or more of the devices connected to the network are running a flavor of Unix, not counting the server farm. Fewer than half are updated on a regular basis, with a quarter that are never upgraded from the day they're put in place to they day they're obsoleted and ripped out, which is 8-10 years. They are monitored for uptime, but that's about it. Manufacturing and Healthcare are the worst- those systems are lightly protected, designed to fail open, require executive-level permission for even routine maintenance, and they sweat those assets sometimes for 15 years.
Over the last 3 years in the Incident Response arena, *nix machines have been a critical piece in the infection nearly 3/4 of the times I've been associated with the cleanup effort, and I think only once was root compromised.
Okay... let's put this in context now. They've hacked the database or bounced off the Unix box into the PLCs etc just like you say, but they don't have root. They've now been discovered because of the ransom. So without root getting rid of them should be far easier. The hackers don't control the routers or the OS. Unplug the dam network cable and remove the problem. Its all software. They don't physically control anything.
Yes I know I'm over simplifying. I don't have time to write a dissertation about systems I'm not an expert on. Or time to become an expert. All I'm saying is an expert... a person who deals with those systems every day should be able to resolve this in days maybe less. If the problem is that the individual boards all need to be checked then you bring in more people to help so it goes faster. ANY problem can be solved.
And that's the crux of my point. Those problems aren't being solved and everything is being drug out has a logical explanation... bureaucrats and politicians are in the way. They won't bring in those extra warm bodies. Etc. Why? Because they want this drug out. The hack becomes an excuse. Its possible the cabal is even behind "the hack". Hell it might have been an inside job. Yeah, I'm making leaps, but isn't it awfully convenient that the states effected are all red states in the SE that all lifted WuFlu restrictions and were expecting hundreds of thousands of travelers to show up on vacation who would need lots of gas?
These people set a virus lose on the world, lied about it, tried to bury treatments for it, used it as cover to hack an election, and you seriously think they are above sabotaging a gas pipeline and using a "hack" as an excuse?
Have I got news for you.
That's not a virus. Its just a remote hack. Those happen every once in a while. You just have to stay patched. There are other ways to prevent that type of attack. Like for one don't run Imap or pop servers unless you HAVE to. Like on a mail server.
An equivalent exploit on windows would mean a virus/worm that spreads from machine to machine automatically infecting every machine in the network and then emailing itself to every persons contact list to attempt to spread to other networks.
An exploit like what you listed has to be used by a somewhat skilled hacker to directly attack one individual machine. If he gains access then he has to personally invade the machine and attempt to take it over.
One is easy to stop. A guy like me goes to the effected machine once the problem is spotted and unplugs the network cable. Then you fix it. The other can take out and entire building in a matter of hours and take 20 people a week to fix.
Windows is a security joke. If you believe otherwise then you clearly have never done real computer security.
Everyone is still ignoring my original point. Skilled technicians should be able to solve these problems in 1-2 days and get the gas flowing again. The fact that the gas isn't flowing clearly shows this is about bureaucrats and/or politicians don't WANT it to flow. Computer problems are just an excuse for the normies who don't know better.
Hey I just wanted to dispel the myth that "MuH bSD iS uNhAcKaBlE" for your own professional integrity. If a PLC can be wormed into blowing up a centrifuge an OS can be exploited. Maintaining up to date patches is apparently no small task, as most ransomware attacks were preventable by simple patching.
I wasn't trying to imply that BSD or unix is un-hackable. Any OS can have a vulnerability. Most unix OS are much harder to hack. They also give the admin much more control over how they run and what's turned on or off. A properly fire-walled FreeBSD box with every unnecessary network service turned off is virtually un-hackable.
I know this for a fact. For three years I ran a company that provided shell accounts to hackers. I lived in what could only be compared to Dodge City of the internet. I was never hacked, but almost all of my competitors were at some point. Mainly because most of them ran Linux. It wasn't because I was some awesome hacker it was because I had a simply philosophy... if its not needed turn it off. If it is needed keep it up to date etc.
Windows on the other hand... heh. Back then it was a joke. These days its still half a joke. You can put frosting on a turd... its still a turd.
If this pipeline attack was an attack on the equipment directly(PLCs, stuxnet etc) then I have to wonder why the equipment had such a vulnerability. I guess sometimes its impossible to know you are vulnerable but if that was the case wouldn't they be hacking other pipelines and even other industries that use the same hardware? No, either someone screwed the pouch or maybe someone installed a screen door on the submarine on purpose.
And my original point still stands. It doesn't matter what system was effected. You get extra people to help and you fix it. The idea that a remote software attack requires more than a few days to overcome seems odd to me. It seems even more odd given the politics involved. Its almost like its just an excuse to screw over the southern states. Hmmmm... I wonder who would want to do that?
Fuggin Kek.