For Everyone That Keeps Asking if an Election Has Ever Been Overturned Due To Fraud! YES, and as Recent as 1994! Eyes on Pennsylvania!
(www.baltimoresun.com)
? B O O M ! ?
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It's really annoying that these posts keep getting made. None of this matters.
Biden has been sworn in, so the 2020 election is final. It. Is. Final.
Never has a federal election been overturned. The closest that it has ever gotten is an order for a new election.
It is possible that SCOTUS could order a new election for President and Vice-President, but there is no precedent to that, The thing I find problematic is that the Constitution specifies that a term is four years and the only way to remove a sitting President is impeachment.
So that leaves only these options:
The Speaker of The House resigns, and the House votes in Donald Trump as the new Speaker. Congress then impeaches, convicts, and removes Biden and Harris; making Trump President.
Harris resigns, Biden appoints Donald Trump Vice-President, then he also resigns. Trump would then become President.
Biden nominates Trump to a cabinet position, the Senate confirms him. Congress impeaches, convicts, and removes Biden, then pass a bill stating that Donald Trump is the federal official who will act as President. Acting-President Pelosi signs the bill into law and she remains Speaker of the House.
The long shot: SCOTUS orders a new Election, and Trump wins if there is no fraud. He's then sworn in on January 20, 2022.
That's it. There is no other option. No re-instatement. No overturning of the election.
Simply, fraud vitiates everything.
I agree. Once you admit that you stole an election through multiple means, and admit you illegally certified electors, wouldn't that be enough to get things rolling?
I see this stated often, but I get the impression that the people repeating it don't understand what it means.
It doesn't mean that fraud undoes everything. It means that fraud spoils everything. Meaning that confirmation of fraud would make Biden the President that cheated to get elected... But he would still be President.
Nope. Read the SCoTUS ruling again.
Nope. I have a solid grasp of the opinion. It is like I said. Fraud does not undo anything; it spoils it. The opinion states explicitly that the point isn't to go back and undo all of the fraud; just that because fraud was present, relief may be granted.
United States v. Throckmorton, 98 US 61 - Supreme Court 1878
It may be hard to comprehend because of the language used. So to summarize what that means: The court may set aside it's own judgements and grant relief (i.e. a redo or new trial) if fraud was used to obtain the judgement, but the court will not attempt to adjudicate the actual fraud.
the conspirators are counting on people who think like you. they will argue that even if Biden achieved 'victory' by violating the state and federal constitutional provisions, he can only be removed through Constitutional impeachment.
most of the rest of us, however, think differently.
He was sworn in constitutionally. He must be removed constitutionally. It doesn't matter how he got there, just that he was sworn into office.
It would be great if we could kick Biden out and Trump takes over... But that's not how it works and that's not what's going to happen.
You can "think differently" all you want, but you will still be wrong.
"It doesn't matter how he got there, just that he was sworn into office."
Biden was sworn in by constitutional procedures not by constitutional law. uncountable state and federal laws were violated to bolster the claim of victory.
it is constitutional to prosecute a criminal seditious conspiracy executing a coup ("the sudden removal or displacement of authority that takes place outside the bounds of the law"); an internal coup is treason.
If what we experienced was garden variety, completely internal voter fraud, your scenario is probably correct. But if massive foreign interference is proven, it’s a whole new ballgame.
Even under your scenario, we have a constitutional crisis. The constitution does not intend for us to live under the rule of a person we did not elect, in fact it exists to prevent that. However, it does not provide a specific remedy for this situation.
That doesn’t mean nothing can be done. Nothing precludes the State Legislatures from decertifying their electoral college results. Nothing precludes Congress from doing the same, with the exception Dems are in control.
Would SCOTUS weigh in at the request of the DS if this happened? Maybe, but so far they’ve steered clear of getting involved.
But the real question is whether or not this was a coup. Was covid a bio attack to set the stage for stealing the election? And whether or not elected officials, and others who swore an oath to the United States collaborated with enemies to pull it off.
If the answer to those questions are yes, all involved are disqualified from holding office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. If that is the case, nothing they have done since committing those acts would be considered official, including certifying the election.
It really isn't.
Agree 100%.
None of that will have any effect on who is President. Biden would still need to either resign or be impeached.
That would not apply in absolute terms like you're implying. If that were to happen, Biden would need to be impeached on those charges first (since a sitting president cannot be criminally indicted). Only upon conviction would he become ineligible to hold office.
That's just not true. None of this would apply retroactively. The election was certified. That's it. It's final. Everyone would know that they committed massive fraud to steal the presidency, but all of their prior actions will stand.
Yes, there is. The Founding Fathers spelled it out here:
We, The People, can remove the illegitimate President and Vice-President and seat the legitimate President in these circumstances.
This is what I was trying to get to. Many keep saying that since there is no precedent of overturning a Presidential election due to fraud, that means there is no possible way anything could be done about Biden and his team stealing an election. I simply disagree and think that this one example of a stolen Senate race would be enough to at least get people thinking more about the possibility. I've never received so many negative replies to an article.
That's the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. This describes why the founders were declaring independence; not the definition of a constitutional process.
If you are suggesting that we amass an army, storm the capital, and overthrow the government, then you have a point. But there is no constitutional mechanism to undo the election.
That is the point, when there is no process, it falls to We, The People, not government, and not the constitution. The constitution originates from The People, not from any other source.
As you said, the only way to remove a sitting President is impeachment. Isn't that a possibility if evidence is actually presented and testimony from the guilty parties is recorded? Just like in the article I posted, once the guilty testified and admitted their crimes, that's all the judge needed to overturn the result. Are you saying that would be impossible regarding a President?
A sitting President that was seated through acts of treason doesn't have to be impeached. To impeach would lend credibility to the claim on the stolen office. Our founders would simply of hung the traitors by the neck until dead. No impeachment.
The constitution only applies to legitimate government, not stolen offices. Those fall under the same auspices claimed by the founders regarding King George. We, The People, hold the only legitimate power over rogue government. The 2nd Amendment should be your biggest clue. Tyranny by a legitimately seated President is one thing, and dealt with through constitutional means. Tyranny by a usurper is entirely different, and is not addressed in the constitution because it was common knowledge at the time it was written that the People possessed the only legitimate power over illegitimate or stolen government. The remedy is the People removing that which was usurped and seating a legitimate government in its place.
There's no precedent for any judge overturning a federal election. Additionally, there is no mechanism for such a thing. So that's a long, long, loooong shot of happening. Chief Justice Roberts is very sensitive to the image of the court and frequently rules in ways that are contrary to the constitution or law, in favor of doing what is politically palpable. The furthest I can see SCOTUS going is ordering a new election be held.
Impossible. There's no precedent or mechanism for it to actually happen.
The best scenario is the Harris resignation, Trump VP, Biden resignation scenario. It's the only one that doesn't depend on another branch of government.
We'd have to assume that Biden and Harris would have the honor and dignity to do what is right... But we all know that they won't.