Thou shalt have no other gods before me
(media.greatawakening.win)
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Surely the question is not what is in the Bible, but HOW we understand what is in the Bible. We each, after all, have limited understanding, and it would be both foolish and arrogant to think that "what I understand now is perfectly right and can never change". Even Paul said:
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.…
He's providing the example that each man or woman has experienced: growing up. But he is pointing to the future: Now, you and I see like THIS. THEN, we SHALL see like THIS.....
He saw very clearly that our understanding of God's truth via the Scripture is destined to become full in the future.
For example, take the question of "eternal". In the spirit, there is no past, no future, there is only the eternal "now". This is why there is "eternal life" - the state of being in the full presence of God, being able to function properly in the spiritual sense, and truly love. "Eternal death" is the state of being separated from God, unable to function normally and having to survive or exist in an atmosphere of poisonous spiritual toxin every moment.
However, in God's grace, at some point, all those originally from God must return to God. Those who have been destroyed and distorted by sin will need to be restored back to God at some point. In this sense, eternal does not mean "for ever". It means, in that state of being transcendent of time and space.
What Scripture says that those that departed and turned away from God, must at some point be returned to Him?
Thanks 45. It's a good question. Here are a few that certainly indicate that.
Personally, I believe that before one reads scripture, one should pray for discernment and insight. Everyone has a different approach, but for me, scripture cannot be properly appreciated and understood without the insight of the Holy Spirit (aka in rapport with God's heart and spirit).
All nations. One might interpret this as metaphor - "all nations" = most nations, or all nations but not all people, but a nation is made up of its people.
The world. Can God save the world if part of the world is condemned forever?
It says here that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Doesn't this mean, that if some perish, the Lord's will is not done? How else could we interpret that? Yes, the Lord wills that none perish, but if some do, too bad? The Lord doesn't really will that none perish. He's OK with cutting his losses?
Again, all. Can we interpret "all" in the scripture simply to actually mean "a large part of" or "at least half"?
In my understanding, the real issue here is that in the past, scholars, theologians and certain believers have not been able to logically reconcile their literal interpretation of "eternal" punishment, fire, damnation, with the scriptures that indicate very strongly that ALL will in fact be saved at the end of the salvation process. Therefore, they went with the more literal (and limited) understanding, and abandoned the scriptures that disagreed with that view, choosing to interpret those scripture .... conveniently (in a way that supports their literal understanding). It's understandable, psychologically, but as Paul very clearly stated: "NOW we see darkly, THEN we shall see clearly".
We do the best we can with what we can understand at the time. But unless we have an open heart and open mind so that God can upgrade our understanding of His word, we can easily become bogged down and rigid in clinging to our limited understanding (naturally limited, because our faith is not mature and perfect).
Wasn't this exactly what Paul was indirectly guiding us to understand in 1 Cor 13:11? If we are growing, then our understanding of should also grow. Am I growing in the Lord? My understanding of God's word should be growing (deepening) year to year. If my understanding is static, then is my faith also static? do I have the name of being alive but am I actually dead?
The child's understanding is not bad; it's appropriate. But in natural development, we have to recognize that growth, including growth in faith, growth in heart, and growth in the spirit, involves a constantly developing understanding, when we put aside previous understandings and are open to a more mature view.
All things.
Who? The Lord. What is his will? that all men be saved. Will the Lord's will be done, or not?
Every.
To reconcile the scriptures of eternal damnation and the scriptures that all will in fact be saved and restored to God in the end, we have no real choice but to logically understand "eternal" as in fact referring to the state of being beyond time and space, which is the realm that God the Father himself resides.
Otherwise, we must choose to interpret the scriptures that indicate all *** and every *** as being merely metaphorical, and not literal at all.
Isn't understanding the "'eternal" as referring to that life and/or suffering in that transcendent realm beyond time and space far more consistent with the perception of a loving parent who would never abandon any child. If God is actually willing that, in the end, some get saved, but some are discarded or relegated to a constant suffering without any recourse, what kind of love is that? Wouldn't God be in constant pain then too?
An immature child might think things work that way (cutting your losses, too bad for those that screw up), but a truly loving parent who would sacrifice everything he owns in order to rescue his child would never think that way, in my opinion.
Anyway, that's my faith and that's my conviction. Just sharing here in the hope that through the exchange of faith and understanding, we both (all) may grow closer to Him (and each other).
Be well, fren.