Thou shalt have no other gods before me
(media.greatawakening.win)
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I'll likely burn in hell for laughing..but that's frigging funny!🤣😂
Hell is real but eternal torment isn't truly supported by the biblical texts. In other words, enjoy a hearty chuckle 🤭
Lake of fire?
Hell is separation from God. We usually visualize Hell as a lake of fire because eternally burning in fire is one of the most painful things we can imagine. It is not close to the true pain of separation from God and thus all that is good, but we cannot really fathom that.
Well said. Our concept of Hell as a "lake of fire" comes from what is probably the best way to describe the anguish of eternal separation from God to 1st century people. Just like you couldn't explain quantum physics to people 2000 years ago (or many people even today), there had to be an effective metaphor, even though it's limited to the concept of one's corporeal self. Coming into the presense of God and being judged eternally after one leaves their physical body is probably more anguish than we who live in this plane of existence can comprehend, so the idea of physical pain was given to get the point across.
Is for correction unto repentance, not torture without recourse.
I guess Jesus' sacrifice means nothing then. The saints are made clean by His blood, Hell is reserved for those sinners who do not repent. These are facts.
Not sure what Bible you are reading, but eternal torment is in the Bible. Maybe you should read it more.
Surely the question is not what is in the Bible, but HOW we understand what is in the Bible. We each, after all, have limited understanding, and it would be both foolish and arrogant to think that "what I understand now is perfectly right and can never change". Even Paul said:
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.…
He's providing the example that each man or woman has experienced: growing up. But he is pointing to the future: Now, you and I see like THIS. THEN, we SHALL see like THIS.....
He saw very clearly that our understanding of God's truth via the Scripture is destined to become full in the future.
For example, take the question of "eternal". In the spirit, there is no past, no future, there is only the eternal "now". This is why there is "eternal life" - the state of being in the full presence of God, being able to function properly in the spiritual sense, and truly love. "Eternal death" is the state of being separated from God, unable to function normally and having to survive or exist in an atmosphere of poisonous spiritual toxin every moment.
However, in God's grace, at some point, all those originally from God must return to God. Those who have been destroyed and distorted by sin will need to be restored back to God at some point. In this sense, eternal does not mean "for ever". It means, in that state of being transcendent of time and space.
What Scripture says that those that departed and turned away from God, must at some point be returned to Him?
KJV, ESV, MKJV. I've done a thorough study of OT four times and the NT seven times. Perhaps you should heed your own advice.
There is no sense in punishment if you don't intend to give the punished a second chance. The point of punishment is to discourage future bad behavior. The existence of hell, if you have to stay for eternity, proves that God is neither just or fair. If hell is real, and God loves us all, he wouldn't make anyone stay there for all eternity. No one is evil enough to deserve to suffer for eternity. No one.
Sounds great. So given free will, a man decides to worship darkness and as icing murder and torture children. Uuhhh...pretty sure those don’t get a pass.
Where did you get that idea, lol? I'm serious. Punishment is only to coerce better behavior? What about simply for the sake of punishment? When the treasonous are hung, they will hang until they die, not until they promise to do better. That is their due punishment.
What about deterring others from doing the same bad things?
It depends on HOW one interprets or understands the scripture. Literal interpretation is often favored by those who find it challenging to grasp the symbolic or metaphorical meanings. Jesus taught in parables for a reason.
Re: "Eternal"
If one understands that in the spirit, there is no past, no future (these being inherent properties of the material world aka space), there is only the eternal "now". This is why there is "eternal life" - the state of being in the full presence of God, being able to function properly in the spiritual sense, and truly love, beyond time and space. "Eternal death" is the state of being separated from God, unable to function normally and having to survive or exist in an atmosphere of poisonous spiritual toxin every moment, beyond time and space.
In this sense, eternal does not mean "for ever". It means, in that state of being transcendent of time and space.
PS.
OK. I get it. If this doesn't resonate with you, I'd move on. But I think you are mistaking "analysis" with understanding and clarity. Just because something is explained clearly, doesn't mean its intellectual or not true. All I am doing is explaining what I understand, through experience over a lifetime, of the reality we live in. If you pray on this topic, perhaps you will be guided.
Either way, may His grace reside with you.
What a fear-based response. This is not what God wants. He wants understanding of truth truth faith, love and hope, not fear.
Sorry to say it, but can't you see how incredibly arrogant this stance is? how do you KNOW what meanings the writings were trying to convey? Because theologians told you? Or teachers?
I do agree, caution, diligence and honesty are required. But if you approach this topic from fear, fear and limitation is what you will get.
Why not make an earnest trusting prayer to God, plead with Him, earnestly, nto from fear but from longing to know the truth, longing to understand what He wants you to understand, rather than from being fearful of doing wrong?
How passionately, how sincerely do you desire to understand God's truth? More than your desire to eat? More than your desire to rest? Have you ever shed tears in prayer in earnestly longing to understand the truth he has hidden in the scripture, so that you can stand even one step closer to Him, and love him even one iota more sincerely?
Indeed, one MUST pay attention to not being motivated and driven by one's ego, or pride, or by wanting things to be as you see them for your own benefit. Of course. But you need to understand God's heart. He loves you. if you trust Him, fervently, would he lead you astray?
Again, this is the responsibility God has given to you, only you, and no one, not even God can do it for you. You have to go to him, you have to invest the heart, prayer, love and effort to hunt down and understand how GOD understands the scripture, what HE is trying to say to you (and me) through scripture. This cannot be done merely through dogma, or theology, or just reading it and deciding what's good enough for you. It requires your honest and trusting and verfent heart.
And if you cannot trust your own heart, why should God trust you? If you cannot trust your own heart, then repent, shed tears, and ask God to guide you so that eventually you CAN trust your own heart, because God is living in it and guiding you through it.
On that day, when you read the scripture, God will speak to you directly through your heart and give you wisdom and understanding.
You bring up an interesting point. Perhaps I needed to be a bit more forthcoming concerning my position. I'm not associated with the people that I'm linking but I'm in full agreement with them.
On Biblical definitions:
www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/meaningforever.htm
On the reconciliation of all things and God's salvation plan:
www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/reconciliation.htm
On the state and fate of hell:
https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/state-and-fate-of-hell.htm
An entire link section for the subject:
https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/index.htm
Take it or leave it but certainly thought-provoking. Happy reading, fren.
Thanks Queef.
I took a glance through, and probably won't be able to read much. Suffering a lot from information overload these days. But what I gleaned in the brief skimming seems certainly consistent with (by and large) the view that I subscribe to.
Perhaps expressed in this one idea? God is a God of love, a parent, the Father of love. Could God be happy knowing that any of his children were suffering under Satan's thralldom? How about any loving human parent? If their son or daughter were captured by sex slavers, and forcibly addicted to heroin, and kept as a sex slave in a tortured state, would you rest easy? Forget it? How much less the Father, whose heart and love for his children is 100 times, 1000 times stronger and more passionate that any human parent?
What about "cut them off"?
The reality of God's great love is that although the process may take time, although it may be long and painful (and it IS painful to God), God's purpose and intent is the restoration of ALL things back to him, in the end.