Same here. Honestly I'll take my chances on whatever the afterlife is rather than live in a world where the "elites" are allowed to do the things that they do, especially to children (though I assume in the afterlife I'll still be aware of these atrocities...but I'm also guessing time isnt linear there and so it's not really happening at the moment).
I appreciate the thought, for real, but I've never believed that whole thing. The idea that God, who I assume would have to be the kindest being ever, would not let really good people into Heaven just cuz they chose the wrong religion or were born into a family/in a country where the "wrong" religion was practiced, doesn't make sense to me. Actually I think he'd even let atheists in.
I mean, let's say you have these 2 people:
Catholic priest who believes in Jesus and has been saved and all that. He also rapes little boys and uses most of the collection plate money to improve his life with material possessions. But he confesses these sins to another priest well out of town (doesn't seem to help the young boys deal with it though). Dies at 90 after taking advantage of several life extending procedures/treatments using his ill gotten gains to squeeze as much life as possible out of hisg gluttonous, sinful body. Does one more confession on his death bed during the final weeks of his life.
Girl born in the middle east and raised to follow Islam. Abducted by the Cabal during the war on terror, brought to America, eventually released by her captors at age 18, makes the most of our capitalist society by working multiple jobs to fund the start up of her own business. Also starts her own anti-trafficking charity. Keeps her faith through all of this and credits it with being the reason she is still alive. Marries and has kids, wonderful wife and mother. Dies a grandmother in her 70s, having given hundreds of thousands of dollars to charities and countless hours as well.
If person #1 gets into Heaven and person #2 goes to Hell, then that's fucking gay lol...
I'm gonna throw a bunch of stuff out here, and it will make sense to some, but not to others. But before I proceed, allow me to state for the record that I love my Christian brothers and sisters, and I know that Christianity, as a religion, was raised by God to accomplish His will, but, yes, yes, yes.
Firstly, look at history. our collective understanding of God has continually grown and improved from Day 1. If scripture is anything to go by, the first ancestors were created pure, but immature (NOT perfect). A tree starts as a seed. It is pure, 100% tree material, but its not complete, or "perfect" in that sense.
Everything in God's creation grows through a process of starting out as seed, growing thru a period of formation, then a growth period, then a period of maturitization. Physically, we do that. As kids, we live and form our most fundamental personalities, etc, up until around 8 or 9. Then our critical faculty activates, we start asking about Who am I? what Am I to do? What is going on with sex? etc. Then, if we actually make it thru adolescence in tact, we begin to mature, leaving childhood and adolescence behind, entering adulthood.
What most Christians have not understood is that the same is exactly treue for our spirits (our hearts, and our spiritual selves.)
Point? Adam and Eve were pure, but NOT mature. They got the commandment because WHILE immature (and only while they were immature) they would inevitably be susceptible to corruption IF the archangel went off track.
Well, in that immature stage they WERE deceived, they abandoned their faith in what God had told them and believed in what the angel was telling them. And they fell.
Stay with me here.
The result? Since then, human history has been the process of God raising human beings (and humanity as a whole) to rise BACK the level of where A&E fell, so that the mistake can be corrected and from THERE, we can move forward to actually full spiritual maturity and "perfection". ("be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect")
What this means is that our understanding of God (and also therefore CHrist) has always been immature. For the Israelites, God was the Lord, the Master. They were loyal, and loved the Lord, but he was NOT their heavenly Father.
That understanding ONLY kicked in when Jesus arrived, and taught it. It's one of the reasons they hated him so much. "Blasphemy!!!"
But you see, Christians have not historically understood how limited or immature our understanding has been. Every era, new understanding and appreciation for God has emerged. It's a process. That process emerged in the form of unfolding theological positions, facilitated by the promulgation and translation and direct connection with scripture. And we are reaching the critical point today. The top of that growth stage, that adolescent stage of understanding. We're about to break thru.
There is plenty of evidence of this in scripture itself, but people have not understood. Just like you CANNOT explain to a child or a teenager or even a young man/woman of 20 what it is like to become a Father (or mother). If you've had kids, you'll know what I mean. you CANNOT understand it until you EXPERIENCE it.
Up until today, in general, Christians have NOT experienced the mature heart of God, or the mature heart of Jesus. We love Jesus, but as a child loves his parent, or a teenager loves his older brother, etc, but we have NOT experienced the actual heart of Jesus. Could a loving parent simply condemn his children? What kind of "love" is that? Regardless of WHAT mistakes they make? Makes no sense, right? Because that is NOT God's heart.
This is what Christians today MUST pray for. They must pray to experience what Jesus experienced, HOW he felt, and HOW he feels today. What did he experience in his heart? When he wept at the pain of the family of lazarus because he had died (Jesus knows that the physical death is nothing, but they did not, an he wept to see how much his people suffered because of "death" that they could not understand.)
What did Jesus feel when he wept looking over Jerusalem knowing that because they rejected him, Jerusalem would be destroyed, and Israel scattered?
What did he FEEL when he said, EVERYONE is welcomed, except for Me. I cannot even find a place to lay my head?
(NB. Solve this puzzle: Jesus could forgive sins BEFORE he went to the Cross. So why did he need to go to the cross, then? If he could already forgive sins? Answer: he had to go to the cross to pay a ransom for the rejection by the Israelites. The israelites (The chosen ones) rejecting Jesus equaled humanity rejecting Jesus, even after 2000 years preparation by God. For that rejection ALL humanity deserved to be lost to God forever. So Jesus paid the price of offering up his body via the crucifixion in order to at least open up spiritual salvation. Which he did. As Christians, when we are "saved" our spirits are claimed by God, but our bodies STILL live under Satan's dominion. WHY? Because the Cross is only the FIRST step. Christ must return to complete the process.)
Here's the truth, that people who have NOT experienced directly the heart of Jesus or God do not know.
God suffers terribly in agony at the suffering of his children. Jesus wept because he was the loneliest person, the MOST misunderstood, andhe loved everyone he saw more than ANYONE could even fathom. So he was totally alone. Ever been in love and rejected? Imagine if you had that experience with EVERY person you me. That's was Jesus life. And when at least even a handful at least opened their immature, uncomprehending hearts, because they FELT his love, it was like he could breath. The people God prepared to receive his son, the Greatest heart ever, who SHOULD have accepted him, rejected him. So he HAD to go to the unprepared. The fishermen, the tax collectors, etc. But even they had limited understanding of his heart.
What Jesus offers is an open doorway. It is a doorway to escape the realm where Satan is sovereign, and enter the realm where God is sovereign. THis is why a person has to choose to accept that offer, to go through that open door.
But that's only spiritual salvation. The completion, where not only our bodies but whether the entire physical world itself, is restored back to God's sovereignty (the kingdom of heaven on earth) is the final last stage.
Even the disciples only understood a fraction of what Jesus did. And before the crucifixion, they had basically NO idea what he was talking about. After the crucifixion, they still struggled. God used them to write the scripture, but its not the full story, obviously. They themselves testify to this fact.
Faith? or Works? Sigh. Don't people get it? it's BOTH. Faith opens the door for our spirit to begin to grow free of satanic control, works are the actual method by which our spirit derives nourishment to actually grow. We need both. Faith opens and guides, and opens our spirit to God, but only when we LIVE in accordance with God's principles and laws, do our spirits actually grow to maturity.
Can your heart ever grow if you do not love someone? Invest your heart in them?
Can a person say :"I believe in Jesus, but I'm ONLY concerned about if I get into heaven" and still grow in their heart, in their unity with Jesus?
No. And today, judgment is falling. Even if someone professes belief in Jesus, but they are siding with the Satanic agenda, they belong to Satan. Conversely, even if someone doesn't know or have a living faith in Jesus, but they side with God's agenda, now to free humankind from the Satanic rulers who have been inplace for millenia, they belong to God.
Ultimately, people can ONLY grow their heart to a fully mature level - complete and unconditional love for others - through their relationship with Jesus, because He is the embodiment of that love. He brought it to perfection, and completion, in His life (and secured the doorway for us through his sacrifice on the cross).
BUT, as the Satanic rulers of the world are kicked out, and true freedom begins to emerge, ALL people will be far more able to build a relationship with Jesus, beyond doctrine, beyond theology,. beyond religion itself.
There is story how, after Jesus' resurrection, two disciples were walking along the road, and he was walking with them, but they did not recognize him. Later, they did.
It's like that. Jesus may very well be walking beside you, moving your heart, leading your character and life, but you don't even know if Jesus is real or not.
The dividing line between "heaven" and "Hell" is not merely a question of what you "believe" and what you "profess". Its what you DO with those opportunities that belief presents to you.
Believing in Jesus is like applying to a university and being accepted. That's great. That's the condition for you even to go on campus. And in that sense, your a college student. But if you never go to class, or you skip half and bunk off other others, you may be a college student, but will you ever learn? Will you ever graduate?
In my view, your question shows that you see some of the problems with existing Christian theology. Which means, you are on the right track. You stand on the foundation of thousands of years of faith by other Christians. THeology does not save. The Relationship saves.
And those that live a good life, practicing good things, even if under other religions, because they never even heard of Jesus, don't worry. They are NOT condemned. That's NOT how it works. Saying that they are condemned, that's theology.
But also, they cannot yet enter that college, the university of heart that Jesus is the doorway to. At the most, they can rise to the level of the first stage - that the israelites rose to. Buddhism, Confucianism, Judaism, and even to some extent Islam, all offer an improvement on what else was offered. The people who were NOT Buddhists, in India, in China, their standard was so much lower. The culture in the arab world before Islam was far, far worse than what Islam is.
From the Christ-centric viewpoint, the improvements they offer are a stepping stone to Christ. How blessed to be born in a country or civilization that has already, by and large, access to Christ, and Christian teaching, and ethics.
The story of the talents is what Christians must remember. (Matthew 25:14-30) The Buddhists, the Moslems, the Hindus, even the conscientious but non-religious, they all have their talents given to them, and God will require of them accordingly. But Christians who have been given the MOST talents, so much more will be required of them (us).
And the heart of condemnation, of theology, is so far, far away from the heart of Jesus. The Jewish leaders wanted to Stone an adulterous woman because of theology. Did Jesus condemn her? No, he forgave her. He loved her. He was compassionate and understanding of her.
Christians who align with theology, but violate the principles of love would be wise to remember this point. It's in there in the scripture for a reason.
If you pray, reach out with you heart, or even with your thought, to Jesus, and ask him what HE feels, he'll come to you (even if the timing may not be what you think, but ask, and you'll receive, if you ask sincerely enough). Talk to him as if he IS real, and he will become real to you, over time. If you connect to him, then you'll start to be able to see what theology is balderdash and what actually is more aligned with TRUTH. (Not all theology is bad, or wrong, obviously, but the skill to see which from which, well, your heart should guide you.)
I am the way, the truth and the life he said. He didn't say I am the "theology".
Be well.
PS. I've written this because I SEE the sincerity in your question, and the correct HEART in your reasoning. It IS correct. Work from there.
A blessing on your ways, fren. Be kind to the world. It needs love.
Did a quick google search to see if that was an insult...discovered that it was prolly sarcasm lol. Seems like they believe the only way to be saved is by faith...what if you dont believe in God but you're a good person anyway? Those people dont deserve eternal damnation in a lake of fire lol...
Same here. Honestly I'll take my chances on whatever the afterlife is rather than live in a world where the "elites" are allowed to do the things that they do, especially to children (though I assume in the afterlife I'll still be aware of these atrocities...but I'm also guessing time isnt linear there and so it's not really happening at the moment).
Bible says if you accept Jesus as Lord you will be saved and be with Him in heaven.
I appreciate the thought, for real, but I've never believed that whole thing. The idea that God, who I assume would have to be the kindest being ever, would not let really good people into Heaven just cuz they chose the wrong religion or were born into a family/in a country where the "wrong" religion was practiced, doesn't make sense to me. Actually I think he'd even let atheists in.
I mean, let's say you have these 2 people:
Catholic priest who believes in Jesus and has been saved and all that. He also rapes little boys and uses most of the collection plate money to improve his life with material possessions. But he confesses these sins to another priest well out of town (doesn't seem to help the young boys deal with it though). Dies at 90 after taking advantage of several life extending procedures/treatments using his ill gotten gains to squeeze as much life as possible out of hisg gluttonous, sinful body. Does one more confession on his death bed during the final weeks of his life.
Girl born in the middle east and raised to follow Islam. Abducted by the Cabal during the war on terror, brought to America, eventually released by her captors at age 18, makes the most of our capitalist society by working multiple jobs to fund the start up of her own business. Also starts her own anti-trafficking charity. Keeps her faith through all of this and credits it with being the reason she is still alive. Marries and has kids, wonderful wife and mother. Dies a grandmother in her 70s, having given hundreds of thousands of dollars to charities and countless hours as well.
If person #1 gets into Heaven and person #2 goes to Hell, then that's fucking gay lol...
Oh, Daylyt. Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
I'm gonna throw a bunch of stuff out here, and it will make sense to some, but not to others. But before I proceed, allow me to state for the record that I love my Christian brothers and sisters, and I know that Christianity, as a religion, was raised by God to accomplish His will, but, yes, yes, yes.
Firstly, look at history. our collective understanding of God has continually grown and improved from Day 1. If scripture is anything to go by, the first ancestors were created pure, but immature (NOT perfect). A tree starts as a seed. It is pure, 100% tree material, but its not complete, or "perfect" in that sense.
Everything in God's creation grows through a process of starting out as seed, growing thru a period of formation, then a growth period, then a period of maturitization. Physically, we do that. As kids, we live and form our most fundamental personalities, etc, up until around 8 or 9. Then our critical faculty activates, we start asking about Who am I? what Am I to do? What is going on with sex? etc. Then, if we actually make it thru adolescence in tact, we begin to mature, leaving childhood and adolescence behind, entering adulthood.
What most Christians have not understood is that the same is exactly treue for our spirits (our hearts, and our spiritual selves.)
Point? Adam and Eve were pure, but NOT mature. They got the commandment because WHILE immature (and only while they were immature) they would inevitably be susceptible to corruption IF the archangel went off track.
Well, in that immature stage they WERE deceived, they abandoned their faith in what God had told them and believed in what the angel was telling them. And they fell.
Stay with me here.
The result? Since then, human history has been the process of God raising human beings (and humanity as a whole) to rise BACK the level of where A&E fell, so that the mistake can be corrected and from THERE, we can move forward to actually full spiritual maturity and "perfection". ("be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect")
What this means is that our understanding of God (and also therefore CHrist) has always been immature. For the Israelites, God was the Lord, the Master. They were loyal, and loved the Lord, but he was NOT their heavenly Father.
That understanding ONLY kicked in when Jesus arrived, and taught it. It's one of the reasons they hated him so much. "Blasphemy!!!"
But you see, Christians have not historically understood how limited or immature our understanding has been. Every era, new understanding and appreciation for God has emerged. It's a process. That process emerged in the form of unfolding theological positions, facilitated by the promulgation and translation and direct connection with scripture. And we are reaching the critical point today. The top of that growth stage, that adolescent stage of understanding. We're about to break thru.
There is plenty of evidence of this in scripture itself, but people have not understood. Just like you CANNOT explain to a child or a teenager or even a young man/woman of 20 what it is like to become a Father (or mother). If you've had kids, you'll know what I mean. you CANNOT understand it until you EXPERIENCE it.
Up until today, in general, Christians have NOT experienced the mature heart of God, or the mature heart of Jesus. We love Jesus, but as a child loves his parent, or a teenager loves his older brother, etc, but we have NOT experienced the actual heart of Jesus. Could a loving parent simply condemn his children? What kind of "love" is that? Regardless of WHAT mistakes they make? Makes no sense, right? Because that is NOT God's heart.
This is what Christians today MUST pray for. They must pray to experience what Jesus experienced, HOW he felt, and HOW he feels today. What did he experience in his heart? When he wept at the pain of the family of lazarus because he had died (Jesus knows that the physical death is nothing, but they did not, an he wept to see how much his people suffered because of "death" that they could not understand.) What did Jesus feel when he wept looking over Jerusalem knowing that because they rejected him, Jerusalem would be destroyed, and Israel scattered? What did he FEEL when he said, EVERYONE is welcomed, except for Me. I cannot even find a place to lay my head?
(NB. Solve this puzzle: Jesus could forgive sins BEFORE he went to the Cross. So why did he need to go to the cross, then? If he could already forgive sins? Answer: he had to go to the cross to pay a ransom for the rejection by the Israelites. The israelites (The chosen ones) rejecting Jesus equaled humanity rejecting Jesus, even after 2000 years preparation by God. For that rejection ALL humanity deserved to be lost to God forever. So Jesus paid the price of offering up his body via the crucifixion in order to at least open up spiritual salvation. Which he did. As Christians, when we are "saved" our spirits are claimed by God, but our bodies STILL live under Satan's dominion. WHY? Because the Cross is only the FIRST step. Christ must return to complete the process.)
Here's the truth, that people who have NOT experienced directly the heart of Jesus or God do not know.
God suffers terribly in agony at the suffering of his children. Jesus wept because he was the loneliest person, the MOST misunderstood, andhe loved everyone he saw more than ANYONE could even fathom. So he was totally alone. Ever been in love and rejected? Imagine if you had that experience with EVERY person you me. That's was Jesus life. And when at least even a handful at least opened their immature, uncomprehending hearts, because they FELT his love, it was like he could breath. The people God prepared to receive his son, the Greatest heart ever, who SHOULD have accepted him, rejected him. So he HAD to go to the unprepared. The fishermen, the tax collectors, etc. But even they had limited understanding of his heart.
What Jesus offers is an open doorway. It is a doorway to escape the realm where Satan is sovereign, and enter the realm where God is sovereign. THis is why a person has to choose to accept that offer, to go through that open door.
But that's only spiritual salvation. The completion, where not only our bodies but whether the entire physical world itself, is restored back to God's sovereignty (the kingdom of heaven on earth) is the final last stage.
Even the disciples only understood a fraction of what Jesus did. And before the crucifixion, they had basically NO idea what he was talking about. After the crucifixion, they still struggled. God used them to write the scripture, but its not the full story, obviously. They themselves testify to this fact.
Faith? or Works? Sigh. Don't people get it? it's BOTH. Faith opens the door for our spirit to begin to grow free of satanic control, works are the actual method by which our spirit derives nourishment to actually grow. We need both. Faith opens and guides, and opens our spirit to God, but only when we LIVE in accordance with God's principles and laws, do our spirits actually grow to maturity.
Can your heart ever grow if you do not love someone? Invest your heart in them?
Can a person say :"I believe in Jesus, but I'm ONLY concerned about if I get into heaven" and still grow in their heart, in their unity with Jesus?
No. And today, judgment is falling. Even if someone professes belief in Jesus, but they are siding with the Satanic agenda, they belong to Satan. Conversely, even if someone doesn't know or have a living faith in Jesus, but they side with God's agenda, now to free humankind from the Satanic rulers who have been inplace for millenia, they belong to God.
Ultimately, people can ONLY grow their heart to a fully mature level - complete and unconditional love for others - through their relationship with Jesus, because He is the embodiment of that love. He brought it to perfection, and completion, in His life (and secured the doorway for us through his sacrifice on the cross).
BUT, as the Satanic rulers of the world are kicked out, and true freedom begins to emerge, ALL people will be far more able to build a relationship with Jesus, beyond doctrine, beyond theology,. beyond religion itself.
There is story how, after Jesus' resurrection, two disciples were walking along the road, and he was walking with them, but they did not recognize him. Later, they did.
It's like that. Jesus may very well be walking beside you, moving your heart, leading your character and life, but you don't even know if Jesus is real or not.
The dividing line between "heaven" and "Hell" is not merely a question of what you "believe" and what you "profess". Its what you DO with those opportunities that belief presents to you.
Believing in Jesus is like applying to a university and being accepted. That's great. That's the condition for you even to go on campus. And in that sense, your a college student. But if you never go to class, or you skip half and bunk off other others, you may be a college student, but will you ever learn? Will you ever graduate?
In my view, your question shows that you see some of the problems with existing Christian theology. Which means, you are on the right track. You stand on the foundation of thousands of years of faith by other Christians. THeology does not save. The Relationship saves.
And those that live a good life, practicing good things, even if under other religions, because they never even heard of Jesus, don't worry. They are NOT condemned. That's NOT how it works. Saying that they are condemned, that's theology.
But also, they cannot yet enter that college, the university of heart that Jesus is the doorway to. At the most, they can rise to the level of the first stage - that the israelites rose to. Buddhism, Confucianism, Judaism, and even to some extent Islam, all offer an improvement on what else was offered. The people who were NOT Buddhists, in India, in China, their standard was so much lower. The culture in the arab world before Islam was far, far worse than what Islam is.
From the Christ-centric viewpoint, the improvements they offer are a stepping stone to Christ. How blessed to be born in a country or civilization that has already, by and large, access to Christ, and Christian teaching, and ethics.
The story of the talents is what Christians must remember. (Matthew 25:14-30) The Buddhists, the Moslems, the Hindus, even the conscientious but non-religious, they all have their talents given to them, and God will require of them accordingly. But Christians who have been given the MOST talents, so much more will be required of them (us).
And the heart of condemnation, of theology, is so far, far away from the heart of Jesus. The Jewish leaders wanted to Stone an adulterous woman because of theology. Did Jesus condemn her? No, he forgave her. He loved her. He was compassionate and understanding of her.
Christians who align with theology, but violate the principles of love would be wise to remember this point. It's in there in the scripture for a reason.
If you pray, reach out with you heart, or even with your thought, to Jesus, and ask him what HE feels, he'll come to you (even if the timing may not be what you think, but ask, and you'll receive, if you ask sincerely enough). Talk to him as if he IS real, and he will become real to you, over time. If you connect to him, then you'll start to be able to see what theology is balderdash and what actually is more aligned with TRUTH. (Not all theology is bad, or wrong, obviously, but the skill to see which from which, well, your heart should guide you.)
I am the way, the truth and the life he said. He didn't say I am the "theology".
Be well.
PS. I've written this because I SEE the sincerity in your question, and the correct HEART in your reasoning. It IS correct. Work from there.
A blessing on your ways, fren. Be kind to the world. It needs love.
You'd do well as a Lutheran
Did a quick google search to see if that was an insult...discovered that it was prolly sarcasm lol. Seems like they believe the only way to be saved is by faith...what if you dont believe in God but you're a good person anyway? Those people dont deserve eternal damnation in a lake of fire lol...
But first we must try and succeed in saving America, then we can be saved in heaven with Jesus.