Aside from the Creepy Joe Hand, I Spy, with My Little Eye, a 17 in the Upper Left...
(media.greatawakening.win)
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The first quote (without citation... Historian rule #1, always include references fren) is actually a 2nd hand recounting of something Lee allegedly said 14 years before the claim was even made. A simple Google search for Rev. Dr. Leyburn & Robert E. Lee should get you to the origin of the propaganda. It's hearsay, without any direct evidence to corroborate. The second "quote" is literally just a section of the first fake quote.
It is true that Lee is on record, prior to the Rebellion, calling slavery a "moral and political evil" (in line with slaveholding Founders like Jefferson for instance). However, in the same letter, he contended that it was a "greater evil to the white than to the colored race" because it made whites lazy. He adopted a Jeffersonian approach of claiming that [paraphrasing] "I'm doing the good Christian thing of educating and helping these poor dumb brutes." It's a weak dodge of taking accountability for his actions, which he himself knew was immoral. At least in Jefferson's case, he ACTIVELY made efforts to abolish slavery (tried multiple times in VA prior to America gaining independence, wanted to include it in the charges against the King in the DOI, signed into law the federal ban on the slave import, enforced the NW ordinance etc). He was also dirt broke after his presidency and couldn't afford to free his slaves and get them out of the state into a free state and in better living conditions (see his correspondence with Edward Coles when he criticizes the VA laws that made impossible for somebody in his position to actually ensure that freed slaves wouldn't end up back into [potentially worse] bondage).
Lee violates his oath to defend the Constitution, which he took as a military officer. He took up arms to defend an effort to violate states rights (like those of PA written to protect the rights of blacks in its jurisdiction against illegal abduction), and to promote a national effort to protect and expand slavery from the Atlantic to the Pacific and beyond. On top of being a terribly overrated military commander (on the battlefield = mediocre, in overall operational capacity = utterly incompetent), he was a traitor and should we take him for face value that he genuinely desired abolition, a coward. Plenty of Virginians and other southerners remained loyal to their country, the United States, and fought and died to preserve the Union and free humans from tyrannical, evil bondage. Lee can't hide behind his bullshit southern gentleman persona.
Nobody was or is a saint. But Lee was far more evil than good, compared to those who fought against him and the evil cause he defended, which resulted in hundreds of thousands of American deaths.
The neoconfederate attacks against Lincoln and Grant (two of the greatest American Patriots in history) are right out of the leftist playbook. Ignorant southern "conservatives" have been duped into buying into this Lost Cause propaganda and thus help aid the left in their attacks against those who actually should be praised for their American patriotism. When "conservatives" promote this garbage, they give leftists ammo to paint them as uneducated, illiterate, history denying morons. IT'S A TRAP over 100 years in the making. Democrats started pushing this alternative history immediately after the rebellion was crushed. It's well past time that "we" as "conservatives" stop allying ourselfs with objective villains.
Your first post asserted yourself as a historical authority, and it didn't provide any other source to substantiate your claim.
This post, first paragraph decried the lack of source, and then you said to "google it" without providing a link yourself. This seems somewhat duplicitous and relies on people taking your assertion as a historical expert as fact. Which doesn't really help your case, imho.
The second lacks a source of the record for context. It also fails to convince, given the argument is true, that he was pro-slavery. The tribal people captured were by western counts, both poor and dumb with regard to western technological advancement, so that's harsh but has some truth to it. It also is a common prejudice against people who speak a different language that they are dumb. You can go to France and see that against Americans, or Asia, etc.
Third paragraph doesn't include references and has a lot of conclusions to be accepted as fact without any support.
The fourth paragraph assertion about Lee being "far more evil than good" isn't substantiated.
I personally don't have a dog in this fight, aside from acknowledging that slavery is bad and was right to be made illegal.
I'm just highlighting things similarly to the standard you established earlier in this thread. I suggest if you want to convince, that you do more than appeal to your authority and provide a couple keywords. Cheers.
Yeah fren, not going to be sharing specific information about the universities I attended or the one where I taught. This place is full of bots and shills, and certainly monitored by those interested in doing harm. Won't be revealing anything too personal to compromise my anonymity. You can choose to believe or not believe me when I refer to my credentials.
Again, a simple search of Rev. Dr. Leyburn & Robert E. Lee would have arrived at the original source of the alleged quote previously posted, falsely attributed to Lee, and void of anything close to a reference. I happened to know off the top of my head, the origin of said quotation, and directed to that reference: Rev. Dr. Leyburn. The context of the fake quote is:
Now that I am on my computer and have quick access, here is a link to said source (scroll to page 167).
The quote I provided, an actual quote from Lee, is often used in attempts to make Lee appear to be anti-slavery. As I said, while it's true that Lee expressed some disapproval of slavery, his actions never once matched his words. I used Jefferson as a comparison to show how we can't always just take somebody's words at face value when there is additional evidence to reasonably doubt their sincerity. Despite holding similar views re: ending slavery, like Lee, Jefferson actually DID things to bring about its end. Lee on the other hand, did literally the opposite, and fought to MAINTAIN it.
If you'd like to go down the rabbit hole of learning actual facts about the Rebellion of 1860, free from the influence of Lost Causism, here are some starting points... the following videos are well supported with references:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwCiRao53J1y_gqJJOH6Rcgpb-vaW9wF0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTsbqK4U7o&t=529s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6DiA_7AjcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3E2FdedPwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOhXF5lNgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbEjmEyHf8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc0GvbzhoWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Elc1-j6Jrg
For when you have more time for easy reading, you can start with the following... if we knew each other in person, I'd loan you the books off my own shelf ;)
Lost Cause in general: https://tinyurl.com/4h5msr45 https://tinyurl.com/xtdtpvtt https://tinyurl.com/yymtxn3s https://tinyurl.com/9spk73m8 https://tinyurl.com/59ftuzww https://tinyurl.com/sndbxaah
For specific critiques of rebel tactics and Lee re: military "genius" start with: https://tinyurl.com/cbpsemjc https://tinyurl.com/3p52ekjn https://tinyurl.com/t3m5r98s https://tinyurl.com/ydm7mjmb https://tinyurl.com/5r7n3hwn
Happy reading and learning frens!
I appreciate the abundance of links and the quote. My objection that you provided a good quote for Lee but failed to clarify how his actions "never matched the words" is I assume somewhere in all these. This kind of stuff is what I love about this place.
These resources will absolutely answer that question on a much deeper level, but the most basic action that need not any quote, proving Lee's actions not matching his words, is that he literally took up arms against the nation (USA) he pledged an oath to defend, for the purpose of defending a traitorous movement within the state of VA and elsewhere in the "southern states" in order to protect and expand slavery.
An example of real heroes who walked the talk, were the 20-25k Virginians who answered the call to put down the rebellion, including the Rock of Chickamagua These men fought to preserve their country, even when most of their neighbors (like Rebel E. Lee) engaged in treason and insurrection.
Like I said, "we" as "conservatives" need to better understand and explain what happened in 1860... unfortunately, the Democrat/leftist pushing ot Lost Cause propaganda that has been wrongly accepted by advocates of states rights has made it an uphill battle. The "Confederates" (glorified Calhounians) are not our allies... they literally demanded a stronger federal government for the enforcement of one thing, and one thing only: slavery.... stronger fugitive slave laws (Congress overriding state laws, like those of PA) and the legalized expansion of slavery into the western territories (and eventually the entire country... Taney laid the logical foundation for such a conspiracy in the Dred Scott ruling... Lincoln identified it and called it out in his "House Divided" speech)