What a fucking idiot. Electric vehicles are at most 2-3 times as efficient as a modern ICE. So maybe takes half as much "gas". Which still comes largely from fossil fuels.
Probably if you look at lifecycle emissions on how much energy needed to extract the lithium and turn it into batteries and then recycle it later. Probably at same level as ICE after all that is considered.
I saw an analysis of this question that came to exactly that conclusion - the battery which is only good for 80K miles or so, produced equivalent emissions in production roughly equivalent to the the savings vs an ICE over that mileage.
Beware, they are not comparing like with like. OK, internal compustion engines are not very efficient and we know electric motors are. But, and it is a big but, you still have to make the electricity and whether you use fossil fuels, wind turbines or solar farms, they are all very inefficient.
All electric cars do is move the point of inefficiency.
Internal combustion engines have a theoretical maximum efficiency determined by the Otto Cycle. That give a theoretical maximum of nearly 50%. Practical considerations like friction, speed of burn, rate of gas movement etc will reduce that figure.
Electric motors usually run at over 95% efficiency. However, the electricity generator will have its own efficiency rating that needs to be accounted for.
Agreed. There is one more nit on the ICE option which is that the waste heat can be used for things like cabin heating, which comes out of the battery for an EV. So in the winter climate this can hurt relative EV performance. Also the EV must heat the battery in the winter, on startup, though once running the battery will heat itself. Losses in battery charge and discharge cycle are also a factor hurting EV performance.
I saw an analysis somewhere that also looked at the energy inputs to battery production (given that the battery is a consumable product requiring a lot of mined and refined materials) and IIRC it added up to nearly the delta to a modern ICE vehicle.
I've been told that the electric transmission system is a lot more efficient than it used to be, I guess due to improved electronics for power conversion, but there are still losses there and in generation, including waste heat (sometimes recovered for facility heating in a 'cogen' plant).
What a fucking idiot. Electric vehicles are at most 2-3 times as efficient as a modern ICE. So maybe takes half as much "gas". Which still comes largely from fossil fuels.
Probably if you look at lifecycle emissions on how much energy needed to extract the lithium and turn it into batteries and then recycle it later. Probably at same level as ICE after all that is considered.
I saw an analysis of this question that came to exactly that conclusion - the battery which is only good for 80K miles or so, produced equivalent emissions in production roughly equivalent to the the savings vs an ICE over that mileage.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/20/tesla-car-battery-production-releases-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-gasoline-driving/
thanks, I sort of guessed at that intuitively but good to have good reference with calcs.
Also considering transmission losses on the grid etc.
Beware, they are not comparing like with like. OK, internal compustion engines are not very efficient and we know electric motors are. But, and it is a big but, you still have to make the electricity and whether you use fossil fuels, wind turbines or solar farms, they are all very inefficient.
All electric cars do is move the point of inefficiency.
The amazing thing is modern engines are incredibly efficient. And when you factor in cost of production of the batteries, they might break even. L
It's tricky to assess the energy production end of things because there are a lot of costs to extracting, refining, and transporting petroleum
Internal combustion engines have a theoretical maximum efficiency determined by the Otto Cycle. That give a theoretical maximum of nearly 50%. Practical considerations like friction, speed of burn, rate of gas movement etc will reduce that figure.
Electric motors usually run at over 95% efficiency. However, the electricity generator will have its own efficiency rating that needs to be accounted for.
Agreed. There is one more nit on the ICE option which is that the waste heat can be used for things like cabin heating, which comes out of the battery for an EV. So in the winter climate this can hurt relative EV performance. Also the EV must heat the battery in the winter, on startup, though once running the battery will heat itself. Losses in battery charge and discharge cycle are also a factor hurting EV performance.
I saw an analysis somewhere that also looked at the energy inputs to battery production (given that the battery is a consumable product requiring a lot of mined and refined materials) and IIRC it added up to nearly the delta to a modern ICE vehicle.
I've been told that the electric transmission system is a lot more efficient than it used to be, I guess due to improved electronics for power conversion, but there are still losses there and in generation, including waste heat (sometimes recovered for facility heating in a 'cogen' plant).