We don't pray to Mary to forgive our sins. We never have and never will. We pray to ASK for her intercession on our behalf and to pray for us, because prayers from the incredibly faithful are extremely powerful. This is also why we ask others who are more holy than us here on earth to also pray for us.
Edit * And by the way, prayer is NOT worship. Learn the difference. Pray in its original sense means "to ask" not "to worship."
Dulia. This is the honor and recognition which we accord to the saints. Perhaps they died as martyrs rather than deny God; or they worked great miracles, since their friendship with God meant that He granted their prayers for healing or restoration; or they simply, as Therese of Lisieux, lived holiness in their own “little way.”
Hyperdulia. This is, to put it simply, lots and lots of dulia. This is the very special honor we accord to Mary, the Mother of God.
Latria. This is true worship, and is given only to God. St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, writing in his Summa Theologiae (II-II, q. 103, a. 4; III, q. 25, a. 5), explained: “In more technical terms used by the Tradition to draw this important distinction, devotion to Mary belongs to the veneration of dulia, or the homage and honor owed to the saints, both angelic and human in heaven, and not to latria, or the adoration and worship that can be given only to the Triune God and the Son incarnate. Because of her unique relationship to Christ in salvation history, however, the special degree of devotion due to Mary has traditionally been called hyperdulia. While latria is owed to her Son by reason of unity of his divine and human natures in the Person of the Word made flesh, hyperdulia is due to Mary as truly his Mother.”
We only ask God and Jesus for forgiveness. Also, how can you know your sins are forgiven if you just tell God directly? You can't hear Him say "Your sins are forgiven" so HOW do you know? This is why we have priests who act in Persona Christi. They can say "You are absolved of your sins" if you've confessed properly and are truly sorry for them and plan to do better.
But whatever, ALL of this will go over your head and you'll call me a pagan or Mary worshiper or whatever else prots say. Let it begin I guess.
You can't hear Him say "Your sins are forgiven" so HOW do you know? This is why we have priests who act in Persona Christi. They can say "You are absolved of your sins" if you've confessed properly
OK as long as you understand this is complete bullshit invented by the Catholic Church to control your soul. Priests are not ABLE to stand in for Christ. Moreover, you don't NEED any human holding himself out as "holier than thou" to intercede with God on your behalf or speak for God and grant your forgiveness.
You don't need some pedo faggot in a black frock to "SAY" you are absolved of your sins if you believe God likes to forgive and that he hears and answers prayer. You don't NEED to "hear" a human voice say "You are forgiven;" it's just your earthly internal self-doubting human voice making you think you need that.
Your faith informs you that, of COURSE you are forgiven by an all-loving God who just heard your fervent, honest prayer.
You don't. Need. A priest. To tell you. You're forgiven.
Stop whining. Here's my answer, can you read this much?
Why Confess Our Sins To a Priest?
Through the sacrament of reconciliation, and by confession our sins to a priest, we have the assurance of Jesus’ own words that we shall be forgiven of our sins.
This is especially true for mortal or very grave sins. Isn’t it true that when we sin gravely, we find it difficult to believe that we can still be forgiven of our sins? Isn’t it true that our human nature somehow finds comfort in actually hearing the words that we are indeed forgiven them no matter how terrible such sins may have been? By confessing our sins to a priest, we are given a vehicle by which we can be comforted in our guilt. We are given an opportunity to personally witness how God’s mercy works. And we know we can believe that with wholehearted repentance, we are indeed forgiven because we have the promise of Jesus Himself.
“When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus therefore said to them again, “Peace be to you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” When he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit! If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.’” — John 20:20–23, WEB-BE
“And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” — Matthew 18:17–18, KJV
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1445 states: “The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.”
“Is any amongst you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praises. Is any amongst you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The insistent prayer of a righteous person is powerfully effective.” — James 5:13–16, WEBBE
Confessing our sins to a priest helps us develop HUMILITY.
To humbly admit our sins to another is to overcome our self-righteousness and self-sufficiency.
Knowing that we shall need to confess our sins to a priest may help us avoid falling into them ever so easily.
It is one thing to say that we can directly confess our sins to God since we do not see Him nor do we tremble at His presence. It is another thing to know that we need to declare our unrighteousness before another man. We need to be reminded of God’s justice. How would it feel like at the end of our lives, when we finally come before the judgment seat of God where we can hide nothing and make no more excuses for our sins?
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a channel of God’s mercy. If we ever lose the life of our soul through mortal sin, it is here where it can be restored back to life.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1446 states: “Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as ‘the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace.’”
And thanks for mentioning the pedo gay priests, it's true it's a problem, BUT it turns out that elementary schools have more pedos and predators teaching than Catholic churches have. Probably because school teachers are ALWAYS around little kids, but Catholic priests are around all kinds of different people, NOT just kids. Elderly, adults, young adults, teens, and children and babies, but there are far fewer children and babies at churches than there are at schools, where it makes up 98% of the schools population.
The US Dept of Education has been following these numbers for a long time. Average yearly cases of child sexual abuse are as follows: Catholic Priests, 201 yearly cases, Public School Employees, 29,000 yearly cases. The difference is clear. Look into it if you'd like, it's a sobering read.
Edit * oh this is hilarious that I get down voted for pointing out that in fact Catholic priests DON'T commit the most sexual abuse against children. Let's be real, the Elites and Cabal do THE most, then after that it's the school system, and way down at the bottom probably way below family members is priests. Truth hurts doesn't it prots? Cope with it.
More than 375 leaders and volunteers in the Southern Baptist church have been charged with some form of sexual misconduct over the past 12 years. Over 200 of these volunteers and leaders pled guilty or were convicted for their crimes. However, the Southern Baptist Convention will not take significant steps to stop abuse in churches, claiming that each church should act independently to tend to this matter. As a result, several pastors and leaders who are registered sex offenders or accused of sexual misconduct are permitted to maintain their position in the church.
Several victims were pressured by their church leaders not to report sexual abuse. In some cases, victims were told that they brought on the abuse because of their sinful nature.
This here explains the myth about "buying your way out of hell":
One never could “buy” indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded.”
Thank you for the corrections. My parents grew up Catholic and converted to Christianity long ago. My parents saw more truth in Christianity than Catholicism. I grew up Christian.
Worship is one area where we differ the most then since I am Christian. I feel worship consists of prayer since Jesus Christ prayed to the father (Matthew 6:9-13). Therefore asking anyone for intercession doesn't feel correct. Also assuming a person is more holy due to good works also seems like a form of idolatry, when all are sinners (Romans 3:23 -
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God)
Also bowing/ kneeling / or asking any individual/ object for intercession, I feel is worship as well and therefore breaking the 2nd Commandment (Exodus 20:3)
At the root of my belief, I just follow what the Bible says and go to this book for all my answers with no intermediary in the spiritual sense.
I am not trying to stir up strife, which has essentially happened with others on this board.
I just love the truth like everyone else here, and the word of God is truth to me (John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.).
Catholicism IS the original Christianity. If you read the Bible in its original texts of Greek and Hebrew, you'll find that the word Catholic is derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός katholikos 'universal.' Which means the Christian Church was the Katholikos Church, Universal Church, Catholic Church, meaning it was for everyone. This is IN the Bible in its original text which has been removed in many protestant translations. Your protestant Bibles have also removed several books from the Bible. Not listening the word of God I see, if you remove His words completely.
You say you "feel" worship is whatever you think it is, but it's not about what you feel, it's about what it IS. "Feel" is a word that leftists use in place of "think" and that kind of shows here too. But again, Christ prayed to God to ASK Him to take the burden of the impending crucifixion away from Him, IF that's what God wanted. He ASKED, He REQUESTED. Prayer once again means to ASK. That is its base meaning.
Again, you're saying you "feel" that bowing or kneeling or even asking anyone for intercession is worship? Bowing and kneeling can signify worship, yes, but it also signifies respect to someone higher than us. If you've forgotten, Mary was the MOTHER of God, of Christ Jesus. She was pure and Holy and worthy of respect because no other (fully) human in existence (not counting Christ since He was True God AND True Man) has been as good as her, therefore she is also a role model and someone we should respect. Giving the proper respect to Jesus' Mother is NOT breaking the FIRST commandment. (Get your commandments in order if you claim to be Christian and know your Bible) If you can't respect Jesus' Mother, how can you say you respect His Father? True, one is human and one is God, but God CHOSE Mary specifically to be Jesus' Mother. "Blessed are you among women" remember that one?
If you're just using your own interpretation of the Bible does that mean that someone else's interpretation is wrong? If everyone has a different interpretation of the Bible are they all wrong or all correct? They CAN'T be all correct because there is ONE Truth and that is God's Truth. THAT'S why back in the early days of the Church, the Apostles and councils determined what was the TRUE interpretation and definition of everything in the Bible, so that nobody else could preach their own false interpretation and say it's the true Word. THAT'S what Protestantism did. Demanded that its warped view of the Bible be made FACT when it WASN'T. I will believe what Jesus' Apostles said over some dude in 1500 who was a fallen away priest, ran away with a nun to marry her, and then claimed HIS interpretation of the Bible was the ONLY correct one. Talk about corrupt.
Maybe it's because prots such as yourself are ALWAYS telling lies about us. Such as we "worship Mary" or are "pagans" because we respect the Saints who are 100x holier than us here on earth.
lol and now you delete your comment because you realize how little you truly know. Here's a thought: go to a Catholic Traditional Latin Mass, or just an Ad Orientum Mass and see if what you say or think about us is actually true. Spoiler alert, it isn't. DO NOT go to a Novus Ordo Mass where they're playing tambourines and they have felt banners and the priest faces the people instead of the Eucharist. THAT'S the NWO infilitration of the church and what you probably believe Catholicism has always been. It isn't.
As a life long catholic, I try and take the time to understand the various protestant beliefs. Because protestants are part of the overall Christian Family. I just wish some protestants out of respect for us would take the time to really understand the Catholic Faith and not just throw ignorant hay makers on the internet.
We don't pray to Mary to forgive our sins. We never have and never will. We pray to ASK for her intercession on our behalf and to pray for us, because prayers from the incredibly faithful are extremely powerful. This is also why we ask others who are more holy than us here on earth to also pray for us.
Edit * And by the way, prayer is NOT worship. Learn the difference. Pray in its original sense means "to ask" not "to worship."
We only ask God and Jesus for forgiveness. Also, how can you know your sins are forgiven if you just tell God directly? You can't hear Him say "Your sins are forgiven" so HOW do you know? This is why we have priests who act in Persona Christi. They can say "You are absolved of your sins" if you've confessed properly and are truly sorry for them and plan to do better.
But whatever, ALL of this will go over your head and you'll call me a pagan or Mary worshiper or whatever else prots say. Let it begin I guess.
OK as long as you understand this is complete bullshit invented by the Catholic Church to control your soul. Priests are not ABLE to stand in for Christ. Moreover, you don't NEED any human holding himself out as "holier than thou" to intercede with God on your behalf or speak for God and grant your forgiveness.
You don't need some pedo faggot in a black frock to "SAY" you are absolved of your sins if you believe God likes to forgive and that he hears and answers prayer. You don't NEED to "hear" a human voice say "You are forgiven;" it's just your earthly internal self-doubting human voice making you think you need that.
Your faith informs you that, of COURSE you are forgiven by an all-loving God who just heard your fervent, honest prayer.
You don't. Need. A priest. To tell you. You're forgiven.
You just are.
Stop whining. Here's my answer, can you read this much?
Why Confess Our Sins To a Priest?
This is especially true for mortal or very grave sins. Isn’t it true that when we sin gravely, we find it difficult to believe that we can still be forgiven of our sins? Isn’t it true that our human nature somehow finds comfort in actually hearing the words that we are indeed forgiven them no matter how terrible such sins may have been? By confessing our sins to a priest, we are given a vehicle by which we can be comforted in our guilt. We are given an opportunity to personally witness how God’s mercy works. And we know we can believe that with wholehearted repentance, we are indeed forgiven because we have the promise of Jesus Himself.
“And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” — Matthew 18:17–18, KJV
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1445 states: “The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.”
To humbly admit our sins to another is to overcome our self-righteousness and self-sufficiency.
It is one thing to say that we can directly confess our sins to God since we do not see Him nor do we tremble at His presence. It is another thing to know that we need to declare our unrighteousness before another man. We need to be reminded of God’s justice. How would it feel like at the end of our lives, when we finally come before the judgment seat of God where we can hide nothing and make no more excuses for our sins?
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a channel of God’s mercy. If we ever lose the life of our soul through mortal sin, it is here where it can be restored back to life.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1446 states: “Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as ‘the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace.’”
::reads "Stop whining. Here's my answer, can you read this much?"::
::laughs, scrolls past Great Wall of Text, moves on::
And thanks for mentioning the pedo gay priests, it's true it's a problem, BUT it turns out that elementary schools have more pedos and predators teaching than Catholic churches have. Probably because school teachers are ALWAYS around little kids, but Catholic priests are around all kinds of different people, NOT just kids. Elderly, adults, young adults, teens, and children and babies, but there are far fewer children and babies at churches than there are at schools, where it makes up 98% of the schools population.
The US Dept of Education has been following these numbers for a long time. Average yearly cases of child sexual abuse are as follows: Catholic Priests, 201 yearly cases, Public School Employees, 29,000 yearly cases. The difference is clear. Look into it if you'd like, it's a sobering read.
https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf
Sex Abuse its not just a Catholic problem. We just get all the publicity because its used as a hammer to get rid of celibacy. Protestants ignore their own sex abuse problems https://www.bishop-accountability.org/2021/04/how-protestant-churches-hid-sexual-abuse/
More than 375 leaders and volunteers in the Southern Baptist church have been charged with some form of sexual misconduct over the past 12 years. Over 200 of these volunteers and leaders pled guilty or were convicted for their crimes. However, the Southern Baptist Convention will not take significant steps to stop abuse in churches, claiming that each church should act independently to tend to this matter. As a result, several pastors and leaders who are registered sex offenders or accused of sexual misconduct are permitted to maintain their position in the church.
Several victims were pressured by their church leaders not to report sexual abuse. In some cases, victims were told that they brought on the abuse because of their sinful nature.
This here explains the myth about "buying your way out of hell":
One never could “buy” indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded.”
The practice of forgiveness thru financial payment ended a long time ago and it was wrong. Try and keep up
Thank you for the corrections. My parents grew up Catholic and converted to Christianity long ago. My parents saw more truth in Christianity than Catholicism. I grew up Christian.
Worship is one area where we differ the most then since I am Christian. I feel worship consists of prayer since Jesus Christ prayed to the father (Matthew 6:9-13). Therefore asking anyone for intercession doesn't feel correct. Also assuming a person is more holy due to good works also seems like a form of idolatry, when all are sinners (Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God)
Also bowing/ kneeling / or asking any individual/ object for intercession, I feel is worship as well and therefore breaking the 2nd Commandment (Exodus 20:3)
At the root of my belief, I just follow what the Bible says and go to this book for all my answers with no intermediary in the spiritual sense.
I am not trying to stir up strife, which has essentially happened with others on this board.
I just love the truth like everyone else here, and the word of God is truth to me (John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.).
Catholicism IS the original Christianity. If you read the Bible in its original texts of Greek and Hebrew, you'll find that the word Catholic is derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός katholikos 'universal.' Which means the Christian Church was the Katholikos Church, Universal Church, Catholic Church, meaning it was for everyone. This is IN the Bible in its original text which has been removed in many protestant translations. Your protestant Bibles have also removed several books from the Bible. Not listening the word of God I see, if you remove His words completely.
You say you "feel" worship is whatever you think it is, but it's not about what you feel, it's about what it IS. "Feel" is a word that leftists use in place of "think" and that kind of shows here too. But again, Christ prayed to God to ASK Him to take the burden of the impending crucifixion away from Him, IF that's what God wanted. He ASKED, He REQUESTED. Prayer once again means to ASK. That is its base meaning.
Again, you're saying you "feel" that bowing or kneeling or even asking anyone for intercession is worship? Bowing and kneeling can signify worship, yes, but it also signifies respect to someone higher than us. If you've forgotten, Mary was the MOTHER of God, of Christ Jesus. She was pure and Holy and worthy of respect because no other (fully) human in existence (not counting Christ since He was True God AND True Man) has been as good as her, therefore she is also a role model and someone we should respect. Giving the proper respect to Jesus' Mother is NOT breaking the FIRST commandment. (Get your commandments in order if you claim to be Christian and know your Bible) If you can't respect Jesus' Mother, how can you say you respect His Father? True, one is human and one is God, but God CHOSE Mary specifically to be Jesus' Mother. "Blessed are you among women" remember that one?
If you're just using your own interpretation of the Bible does that mean that someone else's interpretation is wrong? If everyone has a different interpretation of the Bible are they all wrong or all correct? They CAN'T be all correct because there is ONE Truth and that is God's Truth. THAT'S why back in the early days of the Church, the Apostles and councils determined what was the TRUE interpretation and definition of everything in the Bible, so that nobody else could preach their own false interpretation and say it's the true Word. THAT'S what Protestantism did. Demanded that its warped view of the Bible be made FACT when it WASN'T. I will believe what Jesus' Apostles said over some dude in 1500 who was a fallen away priest, ran away with a nun to marry her, and then claimed HIS interpretation of the Bible was the ONLY correct one. Talk about corrupt.
Great job.
Thanks fren :)
Says who?
Your ignorant knowledge of Catholicisms is a hot mess.
Maybe it's because prots such as yourself are ALWAYS telling lies about us. Such as we "worship Mary" or are "pagans" because we respect the Saints who are 100x holier than us here on earth.
Doh! I see it now with the phantom downvotes.
lol and now you delete your comment because you realize how little you truly know. Here's a thought: go to a Catholic Traditional Latin Mass, or just an Ad Orientum Mass and see if what you say or think about us is actually true. Spoiler alert, it isn't. DO NOT go to a Novus Ordo Mass where they're playing tambourines and they have felt banners and the priest faces the people instead of the Eucharist. THAT'S the NWO infilitration of the church and what you probably believe Catholicism has always been. It isn't.
As a life long catholic, I try and take the time to understand the various protestant beliefs. Because protestants are part of the overall Christian Family. I just wish some protestants out of respect for us would take the time to really understand the Catholic Faith and not just throw ignorant hay makers on the internet.