what some of the commenters in here I don't think realize, is that this likely.. will end up being something where the state begins to strongly encourage disabled people to end their own life. Do Not Trust Leftists.
On the basic principle, I agree that a person should have bodily autonomy, including the right to end one's own life when one no longer wishes to continue living. It's not a choice I think should be common, but people with extreme disability or in extreme pain can, with modern medical technology, be kept alive, even when they have no effective quality of life. Prolonging life in such situations may cross the line into torture. Only the individual can determine that, and he has to square that choice with his God. The Catholics in here will appreciate that point, but should also appreciate that God granted Man agency as well, including the choice to give up God's gift of life.
All that said, I do NOT believe it is government's role to be making that choice for another, either in the affirmative or negative. Right now it does. It always acts to preserve life. In an ideal world, it would assert no such authority.
However, Leftists like to abuse power. They like socialized healthcare systems and would quite happily encourage old people to kill themselves to save a buck. They'd pressure them saying it's for the children, and it's selfish to "waste medical resources," etc. Hell, I have no doubt they'd order docs to encourage it, or set the rules about treatment to default to refusing life-saving care. You'd get a DNR whether you want it or not because they're not going to pay another dime for the old geezers. These are the people that shipped COVID infected people into nursing homes purely to cull the weak and frail, cut costs at the hospitals who would've had to quarantine them in inpatient beds, and conveniently boosted their own reimbursement from CMS in the process. People can and will behave in evil ways with ends-justify-the-means rationale if we give them a loophole.
It would be immoral to not consider the potential for abuse. Assisted suicide won't always have the Kevorkian protections to ensure this is a genuine desire and there is no coercion. See Holland and Portugal for evidence of that.
Iirc Belgium legalised it and now recognise that doing so was a mistake as the constraints have been changed repeatedly to a point where euthanising children is authorised and also people can be euthanised for “emotional pain”, with no underlying physical illness or life limiting condition. Sadly we cannot trust these assholes so I don’t think it should be legalised because they’ve shown time and time again given an inch they would take miles. It should be approached from the point of view of compassion for those who are caught up in this situation and their loved ones on a case by case basis. Besides the UK NHS has spent the year of lockdown pretty much euthanising swathes of elderly and infirm using midazolam (used up equivalent of 2yrs supply in 6months) in basically a cull of “useless eaters”. It’s fecking sick
I believe there was also a study, maybe 10 years back, showing that a significant portion of those “euthanized” were not informed or given an option to opt out...
Suicide is self murder. "Thou Shall Not Kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. So, suicide is a sin in God's eyes. If God meant for man to be able to commit suicide freely of his own accord, it would've been covered in the Commandments as a foot note to murder. Sorry, but you can't beg God for forgiveness AFTER your dead. Doesn't work that way. And no Christian nation should have laws on the books legalizing the practice.
Now, I don't care what others do with their bodies. But, I know Catholicism, and NOWHERE does it say the Catholic faith is fine with suicide. In fact, they say the opposite. So does every other major Christian faith. And Judaism. The only major religion to espouse suicide is Islam, and even then, there's strict rules to follow when "martyring" one's self thru suicide.
The suicide question is why Dr. Kevorkian started "assisted" suicide. He was trying to take the "ownership" of committing the act away from the patient so they could be "right" under God's Law. But, it's STILL suicide. A self made decision to end one's life, and an afront to God's Law.
God did give man agency over himself, PROVIDED that Man's Laws follow the Ten Commandments. Suicide does not follow God's Law, therefore has no place in Man's Society.
I don’t think suicide is right or godly, but I don’t think it’s theologically accurate that are unforgiven before you ask all the time. God forgave all sins on the cross and when you are first redeemed. Otherwise if you yelled at somebody and then died in a car accident, you would be unforgiven. That just doesn’t make logical sense. No one can snatch you out of God’s hand if you are following Him.
I believe that piece of theology was developed because when people are in hard times and they learn about Heaven they might think they just want to go there now and the church didn’t want to encourage that. But God has rest for the weary, comfort, and healing.
Suicide is literally hatred of God, because we are made in God's image. For that, it is the sin of murder, and also the sin of not loving God and putting God first in your life. It is never acceptable, and any word fanangling to "pretend' that God will forgive or agree with this is absurd. Suffering is part of this life. We don't know what happens to those who commit suicide, but the Bible warns clearly against this sin.
You are. believing words in a. Book known to have been altered ..had who?e gospels removed as they didn't say what the popes or rulers wanted. Do some critical thinking!
I'd like to clarify the commandment as Thou Shall Not Murder, as many people have rightfully killed in God's name and with God's blessing throughout the entirety of human history. Completely agree on the suicide part though.
God did give man agency over himself, PROVIDED that Man's Laws follow the Ten Commandments. Suicide does not follow God's Law, therefore has no place in Man's Society.
Disagree. God made no preconditions on agency. He even allowed people to choose to follow Lucifer straight into the depths of hell if they so chose. There was no precondition that they could choose only so long as they made the "right" choice. It's illogical, because that is no "choice" at all.
As for the rest of the theology, I'm certain you're right in line with Catholic teaching, at least as far as I understand it. I'm not Catholic, which is why I made a comment about the person contemplating suicide having to square that choice with their god. God doesn't want you to, but he doesn't reach down from the heavens and stop you either - and we have plenty of bodies to prove that.
As for Man's Society. Wasn't it Jesus who said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's"? The idea being that Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, not an Earthly one. Jesus never intended to set up a theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia do with Islam. This statement bought leniency from the Romans who otherwise would've wiped out early Christendom as many powerful Romans initially saw it as a threat to the empire. Instead, we know how it turned out. Constantine was converted and Rome became the seat of power of Catholicism while Constantinople (of the Eastern Roman empire) became the seat of Orthodox Christianity. In the Middle Ages, the Papacy dabbled in running a theocracy out of the Vatican - and I'm certain you know about how corrupt the Church became when it forget its spiritual mission and focused on crafting Man's Society.
Life is a 100% terminal condition. We will all die. The idea that all diseases are healable and that you'll live forever is a fantasy and one no honest healthcare provider should try and sell that to you. That's the insidious lie, IMO, because people bankrupt themselves trying to pay for the latest fad drug or medical device brought to you by Big Pharma™ or Big Medical Tech™. If you want to see systematic wealth transfer from the middle class to the uber rich, look no farther than the American "healthcare" system selling people who cannot make peace with the end of life the possibility to extend life for a just a little longer.
Disease = un-health - a state of being unhealthy. It does not mean a state of dying. To say life is a "terminal condition," or a state of dying, is akin to saying life is a part of death, or, life is death. To say life is death, is an oxymoron. There is life, and there is death. Never the 'twain shall meet.
While alive, one should be (ideally), living in a state of health. Saying all diseases are healable is simply saying that living in a state of un-health is a temporary condition that can be cured. God's will is for all to live, and while living, to be healthy.
There are times we are sick, and consequently, this suffering is allowed for a purpose greater than our understanding. However to end our suffering via our own hands, because we feel suffering is worthless or too great a cross to bear, is a sin. It's a sin because we are trying to be like God, and destroy life. We don't have that right - only God the creator, can decide who shall live or who shall die.
God always asks us to choose life. Life is hope. To choose death, is to choose evil. It is a sin in its most severe form.
Have had 3 relatives pass in ICU's (in 2 different states) in the last seven years! The push is made multiple times, very real, pervasive and often persuading to the patients and families. In the last case, I began to discuss with others in ICU waiting area and found I was not alone in finding these "chat" by multiple staff was well beyond simply offering valid information of options.
Yes. They purposefully use morphine now, right in front of the family. I’ve actually talked to them about it, and they consider it humane. You would have to realize what they are doing and call them out on it if you don’t want it done or have hope for recovery.
what some of the commenters in here I don't think realize, is that this likely.. will end up being something where the state begins to strongly encourage disabled people to end their own life. Do Not Trust Leftists.
Exactly.
On the basic principle, I agree that a person should have bodily autonomy, including the right to end one's own life when one no longer wishes to continue living. It's not a choice I think should be common, but people with extreme disability or in extreme pain can, with modern medical technology, be kept alive, even when they have no effective quality of life. Prolonging life in such situations may cross the line into torture. Only the individual can determine that, and he has to square that choice with his God. The Catholics in here will appreciate that point, but should also appreciate that God granted Man agency as well, including the choice to give up God's gift of life.
All that said, I do NOT believe it is government's role to be making that choice for another, either in the affirmative or negative. Right now it does. It always acts to preserve life. In an ideal world, it would assert no such authority.
However, Leftists like to abuse power. They like socialized healthcare systems and would quite happily encourage old people to kill themselves to save a buck. They'd pressure them saying it's for the children, and it's selfish to "waste medical resources," etc. Hell, I have no doubt they'd order docs to encourage it, or set the rules about treatment to default to refusing life-saving care. You'd get a DNR whether you want it or not because they're not going to pay another dime for the old geezers. These are the people that shipped COVID infected people into nursing homes purely to cull the weak and frail, cut costs at the hospitals who would've had to quarantine them in inpatient beds, and conveniently boosted their own reimbursement from CMS in the process. People can and will behave in evil ways with ends-justify-the-means rationale if we give them a loophole.
It would be immoral to not consider the potential for abuse. Assisted suicide won't always have the Kevorkian protections to ensure this is a genuine desire and there is no coercion. See Holland and Portugal for evidence of that.
Iirc Belgium legalised it and now recognise that doing so was a mistake as the constraints have been changed repeatedly to a point where euthanising children is authorised and also people can be euthanised for “emotional pain”, with no underlying physical illness or life limiting condition. Sadly we cannot trust these assholes so I don’t think it should be legalised because they’ve shown time and time again given an inch they would take miles. It should be approached from the point of view of compassion for those who are caught up in this situation and their loved ones on a case by case basis. Besides the UK NHS has spent the year of lockdown pretty much euthanising swathes of elderly and infirm using midazolam (used up equivalent of 2yrs supply in 6months) in basically a cull of “useless eaters”. It’s fecking sick
I believe there was also a study, maybe 10 years back, showing that a significant portion of those “euthanized” were not informed or given an option to opt out...
Suicide is self murder. "Thou Shall Not Kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. So, suicide is a sin in God's eyes. If God meant for man to be able to commit suicide freely of his own accord, it would've been covered in the Commandments as a foot note to murder. Sorry, but you can't beg God for forgiveness AFTER your dead. Doesn't work that way. And no Christian nation should have laws on the books legalizing the practice.
Now, I don't care what others do with their bodies. But, I know Catholicism, and NOWHERE does it say the Catholic faith is fine with suicide. In fact, they say the opposite. So does every other major Christian faith. And Judaism. The only major religion to espouse suicide is Islam, and even then, there's strict rules to follow when "martyring" one's self thru suicide.
The suicide question is why Dr. Kevorkian started "assisted" suicide. He was trying to take the "ownership" of committing the act away from the patient so they could be "right" under God's Law. But, it's STILL suicide. A self made decision to end one's life, and an afront to God's Law.
God did give man agency over himself, PROVIDED that Man's Laws follow the Ten Commandments. Suicide does not follow God's Law, therefore has no place in Man's Society.
I don’t think suicide is right or godly, but I don’t think it’s theologically accurate that are unforgiven before you ask all the time. God forgave all sins on the cross and when you are first redeemed. Otherwise if you yelled at somebody and then died in a car accident, you would be unforgiven. That just doesn’t make logical sense. No one can snatch you out of God’s hand if you are following Him.
I believe that piece of theology was developed because when people are in hard times and they learn about Heaven they might think they just want to go there now and the church didn’t want to encourage that. But God has rest for the weary, comfort, and healing.
THANK YOU.
If you can't be forgiven for killing yourself, it would seem as if like Jesus' sacrifice wasn't powerful enough.
Which makes zero sense.
Jesus defeated sin. I can ignore that if I choose, but I can not undo that.
Suicide is literally hatred of God, because we are made in God's image. For that, it is the sin of murder, and also the sin of not loving God and putting God first in your life. It is never acceptable, and any word fanangling to "pretend' that God will forgive or agree with this is absurd. Suffering is part of this life. We don't know what happens to those who commit suicide, but the Bible warns clearly against this sin.
We’re not bound by the law, Jesus came to fulfill the law.
You are. believing words in a. Book known to have been altered ..had who?e gospels removed as they didn't say what the popes or rulers wanted. Do some critical thinking!
I'd like to clarify the commandment as Thou Shall Not Murder, as many people have rightfully killed in God's name and with God's blessing throughout the entirety of human history. Completely agree on the suicide part though.
Disagree. God made no preconditions on agency. He even allowed people to choose to follow Lucifer straight into the depths of hell if they so chose. There was no precondition that they could choose only so long as they made the "right" choice. It's illogical, because that is no "choice" at all.
As for the rest of the theology, I'm certain you're right in line with Catholic teaching, at least as far as I understand it. I'm not Catholic, which is why I made a comment about the person contemplating suicide having to square that choice with their god. God doesn't want you to, but he doesn't reach down from the heavens and stop you either - and we have plenty of bodies to prove that.
As for Man's Society. Wasn't it Jesus who said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's"? The idea being that Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, not an Earthly one. Jesus never intended to set up a theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia do with Islam. This statement bought leniency from the Romans who otherwise would've wiped out early Christendom as many powerful Romans initially saw it as a threat to the empire. Instead, we know how it turned out. Constantine was converted and Rome became the seat of power of Catholicism while Constantinople (of the Eastern Roman empire) became the seat of Orthodox Christianity. In the Middle Ages, the Papacy dabbled in running a theocracy out of the Vatican - and I'm certain you know about how corrupt the Church became when it forget its spiritual mission and focused on crafting Man's Society.
All diseases are healable. This encourages an insidious lie.
Life is a 100% terminal condition. We will all die. The idea that all diseases are healable and that you'll live forever is a fantasy and one no honest healthcare provider should try and sell that to you. That's the insidious lie, IMO, because people bankrupt themselves trying to pay for the latest fad drug or medical device brought to you by Big Pharma™ or Big Medical Tech™. If you want to see systematic wealth transfer from the middle class to the uber rich, look no farther than the American "healthcare" system selling people who cannot make peace with the end of life the possibility to extend life for a just a little longer.
I never said you’ll live forever.
Dementia is a man made disease.
Cancer is a man made disease.
Diabetes is a man made disease.
Osteoporosis is a man made disease.
Autoimmune disorders are a man made disease.
Disease = un-health - a state of being unhealthy. It does not mean a state of dying. To say life is a "terminal condition," or a state of dying, is akin to saying life is a part of death, or, life is death. To say life is death, is an oxymoron. There is life, and there is death. Never the 'twain shall meet.
While alive, one should be (ideally), living in a state of health. Saying all diseases are healable is simply saying that living in a state of un-health is a temporary condition that can be cured. God's will is for all to live, and while living, to be healthy.
There are times we are sick, and consequently, this suffering is allowed for a purpose greater than our understanding. However to end our suffering via our own hands, because we feel suffering is worthless or too great a cross to bear, is a sin. It's a sin because we are trying to be like God, and destroy life. We don't have that right - only God the creator, can decide who shall live or who shall die.
God always asks us to choose life. Life is hope. To choose death, is to choose evil. It is a sin in its most severe form.
I agree
The state: You're a burden on society and we'll give you the means to kill yourself if you like."
Yep the government funded healthcares will begin to deny treatment if euthanasia is a viable option.
Plus its legal suicide so whatever morality is in that—I don’t think its okay.
Any society that will kill the young will also kill the old.
Have had 3 relatives pass in ICU's (in 2 different states) in the last seven years! The push is made multiple times, very real, pervasive and often persuading to the patients and families. In the last case, I began to discuss with others in ICU waiting area and found I was not alone in finding these "chat" by multiple staff was well beyond simply offering valid information of options.
Yes. They purposefully use morphine now, right in front of the family. I’ve actually talked to them about it, and they consider it humane. You would have to realize what they are doing and call them out on it if you don’t want it done or have hope for recovery.