The OP is posting - sorry to say this, rooftop - the subject title expresses an attitude with so little heart and so little compassion. In my unabashed view, the attitude expressed in that line knows nothing (well, almost nothing) about the heart of God.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Or let me put it another way: Let he who has never failed, throw failure in the face of others.
Are there people out there who are sinful in their pride? Sure.
I'm really disappointed. These types of posts get me down the most. I hate the disinfo, or lack of research, and sometimes the bickering, but the arrogant judgmental attitudes that some anons display are what saddens me in a way that the evil performed by others doesn't.
If anons who understand what is going on cannot have the heart to see the tragedy, to weep for the victims of the Cabal, then who can?
I hate it. I really, really hate it. So many normies are victims. Good people, trapped in a vicious plan to destroy them.
Instead of realizing "there, but for the grace of God, go I" and weeping in gratitude for having been guided to be awake, to understand and NOT fall victim to the Great Evil, some people just turn around and judge, in anger, or self-righteous myopia, seeing all the faults in others, instead of reflecting in humility and thereby learning to experience compassion.
To those who are given much, much will be required. To those who are given little, little will be required.
Because our pedes are family, one hopes, one prays that one's family will rise to a higher standard. Personally, I think God is deeply saddened and disappointed by some of the attitudes of those who think they know enough, are good enough, and righteous enough, to castiage and cast judgment.
I'll leave it there. Likely, my words will fall on deaf ears. But I wonder. How many tears have you shed, oh anon, for the suffering of our people, for the millions of innocent victims of the Cabal?
There is no greater pain a person can experience than to be the cause of the suffering of their child. That is, any person with a heart. While rooftop shouts in coldhearted judgment on parents who have fallen victim in this one, one can only suspect that she simply does not understand how much of a life of grief awaits those who find out that they were tricked into doing something they thought was good for their child, only to find out they are the instrument of their suffering.
I pray rooftop never experiences that grief. Or maybe in fact, she should. Maybe then she'll find some compassion through her own suffering.
I love seeing rooftops stuff and I admit I have a strong affection for our tendie, but nothing has felt as painful in my heart as much as this post, in a long time.
Thanks for replying, Rooftop. Maybe its foolish to attempt to share a sincere and heart-felt communication on an online forum.
"that just depends on if you're a narcissist or not." I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Perhaps you are correct. Maybe I misread your intent, and the heart and attitude you were attempting to express. Maybe I misinterpreted it. I'm open to that possibility.
I don't know if there is any value in attempting to discuss the issues. Maybe we just see things too differently at this point. Which I would think is OK. At least, I tried sincerely express my mind to the person I was commenting to, and to be honest and open about it.
You know, after I posted my comment, I reflected on it a lot. And, to be perfectly honest, I experienced a sense of regret and a pang of judgment, too. Here I was talking about you being too harsh and hard of heart, but what about me? I tried to justify my criticism of you by appealing to my own feelings about the tragedies around us. As if my feelings about the situation trump yours or anyone else's. Physician, heal thyself.
I'm certainly not annoyed by your post - at least, I don't think so. But I will say that I feel the broken heart and agony of those who have acted in ignorance with their sincerity. It doesn't feel like you do (maybe you do, how would I know?). Anyway, that thought makes me sad.
"What would you have to say about republicans who didn't trust the shot...."
Is it my place to say anything about them? To condemn them? Is it somehow OUR job to judge and condemn them? To be honest, I don't really care about those that have actually sacrificed their children out of ego or selfishness or pride, or convenience. Why should I provide any portion of my heart to care about or be concerned about them. Can I change them? I fully agree with you (I think) that they will certainly face the consequences. I see suffering for them, although I certainly do not relish it.
What I DO care about is the parents who have agonized for months and years now, watching their children suffer in lockdowns (you know that I live in the MOST lockdown city on the planet, don't you? One cannot begin to describe the agony my whole society and people have been put through, prior even to the injections coming out.) Who may have taken the injections because they felt they had no choice and that it might help resolve the situation. Who, in their ignorance, have suffered. And those that, in ignorance, deceived by evil, have actually injected their children.
That's who I care about. The children, the parents. I do not care very much about those who acted from arrogance, selfishness or ego. As I already said, their suffering will be great. It will be what it is. But honestly, I do not give any space in my heart or mind dwelling on them, or their future.
Anyway, that's me. But let me share one or two thoughts here, honestly.
"Well the day of judgement IS at hand for these parents who you are making excuses for in sweeping generalizations like you know them and know their souls, which you don't."
I have to say, you've done me a great disservice. "making excuses for"? "Sweeping generalizations".
You say I'm making excuses for people. Your view. Let's disagree. I'm trying to understand, from God's viewpoint, who my people are.
Secondly, maybe I've misread you, but it seems like you are making sweeping generalizations. UNless I was inarticulate, I wrote, and intended to experss the view, that while SOME have surely acted from ego and selfishness, I know of many who have not, and I also believe that there are also many who have not. So I'm not going to condemn all as if they are one and only one. Don't you think that you made a massive sweeping generalization when you condemned ALL parents in your post, regardless? Did I misread you?
Finally, I mean, let's be real. How do you know what I do or don't know people and their souls, or their hearts? You don't know, do you? Or do you?
But even so, I mean, do YOU know about all the parents you have made sweeping statements about, and the content of their souls? I mean, asking for a fren. Because that is exactly what your post seems to say. Perhaps I'm just misreading it. After all, <fact> text is VERY limited in how much meaning it conveys.
Before I conclude, let me say this: I feel no animosity or annoyance towards you, or towards the preacher shouting out "repent". Indeed, we need that. Heck, we should be saying that at the top of our voices. But is that what you intended to communicate, in your post? Maybe I was just having a bad day. I didn't really quite get that. (Were you attempting to inspire people to repent by telling them that they are screwed and their children will hate them?)
Also I think I've expressed my appreciation for your posts, your presence in the board community, and more. So, after this, I'll be moving on and I'll be holding no prejudices towards you or about you. I hope it will be likewise for you, but either way....
But let me conclude with this. When I was a young boy, I had visitations from Jesus, and from other saints. I felt the grieving heart of Christ, as he wept over humanity, who, in their sin and ignorance, are suffering under the devil's thralldom. I wept many tears as I experienced, was overwhelmed, by the grief and sorrow in Jesus' heart. I forgot those experiences until I re-encountered Jesus at the ripe old age of 18. (many years ago now).
And then, when I began to actually read through scripture and pray, as an adult, through conscious choice, I noticed how many parts of scripture described and conveyed Jesus sorrow and grief at the suffering of human beings.
When I was a child, I was taught about Jesus as if he is some sort of impervious wonderful king, a judge, some glorious, transcendent, unattached being, who only felt love, joy and happiness. As an adult, through really encountering Jesus, I recognized that, like a young child who doesn't really understand what his or her parents may be going through, I had been ignorant of Jesus all along.
In my experience, if one reads the gospels, paying attention to all the times that Jesus weeps, sheds tears, and what he expresses about how he feels (indirectly through his words), then one cannot but help encounter a different kind of Jesus to the one taught by well-meaning pastors and believers who have never considered how much a man of sorrow was our Lord. Yes, he is the Lord of Glory and Light, but he also bears the sins of the world, and more importantly, the suffering of the world, in his single perfect heart.
Anyway, that's my thought.
You are certainly correct about one thing. None of them, or us, can escape the consequences of our choices.
Thanks again for replying, sharing your views. I look forward to seeing more of your posts on the board. FI
I love your fighting spirit. I've learned alot about you in your sharing. Honestly, that's really awesome, and thanks for investing the time. My initial feelings about our rooftop tendie have been confirmed. You're a fricken' good egg.
Pardon my french.
I think I do find it hard to relate to the some of the harsh feelings or what seems like hard-heartedness sometimes expressed on the board. Not because I do not despise evil or hate the results. But I'm also very wary of the devil sneaking in and creating division in people's hearts.
But I want to emphasize: I'm not championing the parents. I'm championing the children. Because when I look at people, all I see is small children and big children, grown children and immature children. From God's viewpoint (I believe) every single one of his children has been violated.
I know that there are messed out people out there. Hell is very real to me. I know what hell is like, and that's why I tend to avoid focusing on such people. But I also know a lot about what heaven is like, I'd like to think. Maybe, not sure. If heaven is feeling your father's presence every single day, then yeah.
And yes, I consider myself, extremely, very, over-the-top lucky. The blessings I've received are inexpressible, my worthiness? Well, don't wanna be arrogant and think I can know, but I know that no one is really worthy, except you know who.
So, later I'll offer a prayer for your protection, and for God to give you a double helping of fighting spirit. And, I'll also pray that IF necessary, he guides you on how to best apply it. If necessary... I'm not presuming that you aren't applying it in the best way or as God desires. I'm just saying, if you have a really powerful AK47, then use it in the best way to get the best, right effect. Hope that makes sense. Not insinuating that you aren't a good shot. Just saying that both you and I can improve our talents, to His greater glory and to our world's greater good. That's worth praying for, right?
Just one thing: "you've opened your heart so far that to me it's like overdriving your headlights. You're taking on unnecessary amts of pain when no one asked you to."
Hehe Story of my life. No, seriously, won't go into it, but it's kind of a family trait. There are times when God has indicated the exact same thing. Dude, you're opening up your heart so much it's hurting me! Lower the volume, bro. And don't carry it all so much.
Hehehe. Still very much a work in progress. And I get by with a little help from my friends.
OK. Well, its been a treat. Battering away at the keyboard, instead of working like I should be doing. But whatevs.
Hey, I'm glad your on our side. More strength and power to you.
You know I complained about stuff I don't like or which makes me disappointed, some of the stuff that comes across this board.
Well, I got to tell you, I just read through all three replies (like I was ripping into a box of cornflakes after a 10 day fast) and I'm really blown over. Your replies are what I LOVE MOST about this board. Really awesome _ I'm kind a lit up now _ Yeah, I can be very emotionally charged at times.
Anyway, there's a lot in the replies, but most of all (what I personally like most) is that you really come across as who you are, and your sharing something with me about who you are, how you think and why you think like you do. It's so awesome, because here's the thing. We read lines of text - a headline here, a comment there - and we often (i'm generalizing here) come away with conclusions and impressions that are really, really off. By which I mean, at least I certainly do this - I come away with an idea about a person - I'm very energetically inclined and get a sense of the energies through the words and expressions - I'm also a linguist - but it's really only when effort is made that sometimes you a can transcend those initial impressions, and get a fuller sense.
There are a bunch of things you've written that I'd like to respond to. I mean, I don;t know; I also sense who much you don't really know about me (how could you), but at a minimum, I'm really chuffed at the time and effort you've made to reply.
So, without going into to much meta-analysis, I'll try to respond naturally to a few things.
Yeah, I DO have a powerful sense of empathy and sympathy, and have had since young. However, I have also lived with a really crazy level of anger in my heart a lot of my life. It's really only in the last few years that God has begun to show me and teach me about this. I would keep so much locked down (and, perhaps, suppressed by the sorrow and other things) that when my anger came out, whew. Total blaze. Never violent (thankfully), at least, never expressed in physical violence again anyone, but certain emotional 'violence', basically like a massive raging storm.
Maybe a little hulk-like. And, it always felt deeply justified, because I was coming from a place of righteousness (I believed) and always with an intent to see the right thing happened. I would get so frustrated when I felt people were ignoring their responsibility to be good, to do right, to sacrifice themselves instead of sacrificing others for their own comfort. Really, like a hurricane, emotionally.
Only in the last two years has God revealed to me how much trauma and difficulty this created for my family, who I love profoundly and powerfully.
So I've been learning where this comes from, and what I have been in denial of, such that I could not even recognize how I felt.
I'm intense in my observations of humans, and can pick up a LOT of stuff, and am normally a very calming, supportive kind of person. But when I lose it, man, I rage as if I'd gone supernova. Which is NOT very often.
I mention all this to say, boy oh boy, if I get really triggered, when I think of evil, or what people have been doing to my people (the people of my state are MY people) then, I go lit. So, anyway, yeah, no, I'm certainly not a sad sack or one of those "oh, can't we all just get along?" type of people. But anyway. More next...
Given your description of your childhood personality and nature and how you you tackled with that, I can say I feel a sort of pride. Like, yeah, I imagine God and think he's probably feels a lot of pride in you. Not letting anyone push you around. It's awesome.
I do appreciate your comments about not being fake with regards to how one builds their relationship with Jesus. I do think I've received a lot of natural protection over the course of my life. For whatever reason, God did not put me in harms way from the nutjobs, the psychopaths, and the demonically possessed. I mean, I pick up on that sort of presence very, very quickly, and I do not interact with it, or such people. And, I've never felt drawn to.
"so I can't grieve or cry or open my heart when it just isn't in me to do it." Yeah, that's cool. I mean, we're all different. Although, I have such a rather strong prejudice with regards to Jesus, due to my experiences and living relationship with him, that I tend to forget that. And, I suppose its really true, that's an impression of Jesus that was shaped by my early experiences and nature.
Actually, my dad was very narcissistic in a lot of ways, but also very sensitive and compassionate. Interesting man, he grew up in in country where the Nazis rolled in when he was 8 years of age, and lived under their regime for about 5 years. Near starvation, massive trauma in his childhood, but he was never able to even recognize it. A large part of his heart was locked away from me, and from himself. Really a beautiful man, but a man who was buried under unrecognized inner pain. So, lol, he could be intensely and extremely intolerant of others, and yet he thought he was the most tolerant person!
As an adult, I underwent a 12 year journey in my relationship with him to find out who he was, what the nature of our relationship really was, and ended up really loving the guy.
My mum, likewise, tragic childhood. Abused by a relative as a young child with her twin sister, he mum passed away when my mum was 11, and her dad when she was 16. All locked up, unable to express many locked down emotions.
Terrier, huh. That's cool. Because we need some of that. yeah, we certainly do.
I personally think that some children will not be able to forgive their parents, but I also think that many will be able to, too. They'll recognize it. That's all I'm saying. I guess I tend to focus on certain people and certain behaviors, and I guess you do too. Just kinda different in focus. Which, really, is a very good thing. Cos God teaches us and helps us to grow through others, if we are open to Him.
I still find it a bit hard to relate to your disgust, because perhaps, yeah, I really do NOT focus on or give my attention to the shitbags who do really shitty stuff. To be honest, over a lifetime, I've learned that I cannot afford to. Because It WOULD grieve me too much, and I'd be useless. There are mountains of things out that happening that I will not allow myself to think about, because frankly, its too real. I don't need to see it to know its happening. So I give my energy and attention where I feel God directs me too. But thank God also for pedes like yourself. As long as we put Him first, then there's no real problem. He'll use you and he'll use me in the best ways possible, as long as we offer it all to him.
"But basically if I say "God forgive you because I don't think I can", well... that's the truth. I can TRY to forgive, and I can pray for that to come over me. And anyway it's not my place to forgive them anyway. But these vax-parents need forgiveness from Jesus, because they won't get it from society, and may not even get it from their own kids."
I don't quite see it that way, but I can relate to what you say, and I respect it. If you can't, you can't. Not because you're not a good person, but because you ARE a good person. Personally, I think God forces himself to forgive sometimes because he needs to, not because he wants to. I feel like I've learned so much about where you are coming from, and it inspires me to honor God more. I mean, I glorify God because I get such a much better sense of where you're at and where you're coming from. And, it's good.
Maybe. I'm not perfect. But perhaps you'll notice that the key point of my comment is to express how I feel about the post. Is that judgment?
Can you outline here where you think I've cast judgment on rooftop?
Aside from the point that I think Rooftop's reprimand/rebuke/reproving of parents who have 'injected their kids' is far too over-generalizing, factually, with regards to some parents, I think she is factually correct.
However, my reproach, if you want call it that, is a lament that rooftop's heart seems really quite hard. To me, anyway. On this point, too.
I also expressed my sincere admiration and even affection for Rooftop. How would you suggest I show compassion? I'm ALL ears. If I can learn though you, I want to.
I expressed disappointment. Is that judgment? I expressed heartache. Is that judgment? I expressed a view about how I think God sees a type of behavior. Is that judgment?
Perhaps judgment was the wrong word. She's not really judging them, except maybe in her heart. She's warning them, and reproaching them.
It's one thing to honestly share your heart; it's another thing to judge. To judgment involves condemnation.
Do I condemn Rooftop? (Question: Does she condemn the parents in this point?)
I'm fully open to reflection. But at some point, when you say you cannot offer your feelings or view on someone's actions because its judging, you establish a cycle that neutralizes any ability to feel, share and offer feedback.
Do I judge Rooftop for the post she made and how she framed her attitude? I'm certainly not condemning her. And, if I do judge, then yes, perhaps I'm at fault. How do you suggest that I express my feelings without "judging"?
I think you articulate some of the issues well; describing how the ego can attach to this or that emotion or thought, and use it as a pivot point.
"the devil wants god's children to turn on one another, its the oldest game he has ever played" This is something that the wisest of the wise remember. Divide and conquer is not merely a political ploy. It's the method of evil.
(For example, scripture explains that the serpent (the archangel Lucifer) first asked Eve "Did God say NNNN? It's not true. YYYY is true" those words had the primary single purpose of dividing Eve from her Father, by fermenting distrust and disbelief in Him. Divide, then conquer. The purpose of her faith in God and his command was to bind her to him during that period when she was vulnerable.)
I don't know that it couldn't have happened any other way. I'm not a fatalist in my faith or outlook. My faith conviction is that God's will manifests into reality based on the following formula:
God's portion of work (we'll call it God's "responsibility", which he takes on freely and with conscious choice) + the human portion of work (our responsibility, assigned to us by God, for our own benefit, for our growth, and so that we are co-creators with him) = fulfillment of God's will.
This is why history repeats, and the same patterns re-occur in history, and in scripture; because God sets up one person, or family, or people, or nation, to fulfill a certain role in His plan, and if that person, or family, or people, or nation, fails, God has to find someone else He can then set up to fulfill it. This happens again and again until the work has been done. When one person (or family, or people, or nation) fails his or her responsibility, another must eventually step up and resolve it. E.g. Adam's failure >>> resolved by Jesus. Abraham's failure (in the first offering) >>>> resolved by Isaac and Jacob. etc. NB: Parable of the vineyard: (Israel failed to recognize the Messiah, Jesus, so God established Christians as a world-level 'people' to do the job.)
Anyway, point is, I don't know if it HAD to be this way, but as you say, what has happened has happened, and attaching to that too much can lead the ego astray. I also believe that what we do today and tomorrow, can change the course of events. God is the great architect of our lives and the life of humanity, but we all have a role to play, too, to the best of our ability.
Your emphasis on love, compassion, and praying for healing are ... well, just great. When we practice such a heart, I believe GOd's heart is much comforted.
Your comment speaks to my heart.
The OP is posting - sorry to say this, rooftop - the subject title expresses an attitude with so little heart and so little compassion. In my unabashed view, the attitude expressed in that line knows nothing (well, almost nothing) about the heart of God.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Or let me put it another way: Let he who has never failed, throw failure in the face of others.
Are there people out there who are sinful in their pride? Sure.
I'm really disappointed. These types of posts get me down the most. I hate the disinfo, or lack of research, and sometimes the bickering, but the arrogant judgmental attitudes that some anons display are what saddens me in a way that the evil performed by others doesn't.
If anons who understand what is going on cannot have the heart to see the tragedy, to weep for the victims of the Cabal, then who can?
I hate it. I really, really hate it. So many normies are victims. Good people, trapped in a vicious plan to destroy them.
Instead of realizing "there, but for the grace of God, go I" and weeping in gratitude for having been guided to be awake, to understand and NOT fall victim to the Great Evil, some people just turn around and judge, in anger, or self-righteous myopia, seeing all the faults in others, instead of reflecting in humility and thereby learning to experience compassion.
To those who are given much, much will be required. To those who are given little, little will be required.
Because our pedes are family, one hopes, one prays that one's family will rise to a higher standard. Personally, I think God is deeply saddened and disappointed by some of the attitudes of those who think they know enough, are good enough, and righteous enough, to castiage and cast judgment.
I'll leave it there. Likely, my words will fall on deaf ears. But I wonder. How many tears have you shed, oh anon, for the suffering of our people, for the millions of innocent victims of the Cabal?
There is no greater pain a person can experience than to be the cause of the suffering of their child. That is, any person with a heart. While rooftop shouts in coldhearted judgment on parents who have fallen victim in this one, one can only suspect that she simply does not understand how much of a life of grief awaits those who find out that they were tricked into doing something they thought was good for their child, only to find out they are the instrument of their suffering.
I pray rooftop never experiences that grief. Or maybe in fact, she should. Maybe then she'll find some compassion through her own suffering.
I love seeing rooftops stuff and I admit I have a strong affection for our tendie, but nothing has felt as painful in my heart as much as this post, in a long time.
u/rooftoptendie
Thanks for replying, Rooftop. Maybe its foolish to attempt to share a sincere and heart-felt communication on an online forum.
"that just depends on if you're a narcissist or not." I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Perhaps you are correct. Maybe I misread your intent, and the heart and attitude you were attempting to express. Maybe I misinterpreted it. I'm open to that possibility.
I don't know if there is any value in attempting to discuss the issues. Maybe we just see things too differently at this point. Which I would think is OK. At least, I tried sincerely express my mind to the person I was commenting to, and to be honest and open about it.
You know, after I posted my comment, I reflected on it a lot. And, to be perfectly honest, I experienced a sense of regret and a pang of judgment, too. Here I was talking about you being too harsh and hard of heart, but what about me? I tried to justify my criticism of you by appealing to my own feelings about the tragedies around us. As if my feelings about the situation trump yours or anyone else's. Physician, heal thyself.
I'm certainly not annoyed by your post - at least, I don't think so. But I will say that I feel the broken heart and agony of those who have acted in ignorance with their sincerity. It doesn't feel like you do (maybe you do, how would I know?). Anyway, that thought makes me sad.
"What would you have to say about republicans who didn't trust the shot...."
Is it my place to say anything about them? To condemn them? Is it somehow OUR job to judge and condemn them? To be honest, I don't really care about those that have actually sacrificed their children out of ego or selfishness or pride, or convenience. Why should I provide any portion of my heart to care about or be concerned about them. Can I change them? I fully agree with you (I think) that they will certainly face the consequences. I see suffering for them, although I certainly do not relish it.
What I DO care about is the parents who have agonized for months and years now, watching their children suffer in lockdowns (you know that I live in the MOST lockdown city on the planet, don't you? One cannot begin to describe the agony my whole society and people have been put through, prior even to the injections coming out.) Who may have taken the injections because they felt they had no choice and that it might help resolve the situation. Who, in their ignorance, have suffered. And those that, in ignorance, deceived by evil, have actually injected their children.
That's who I care about. The children, the parents. I do not care very much about those who acted from arrogance, selfishness or ego. As I already said, their suffering will be great. It will be what it is. But honestly, I do not give any space in my heart or mind dwelling on them, or their future.
Anyway, that's me. But let me share one or two thoughts here, honestly.
"Well the day of judgement IS at hand for these parents who you are making excuses for in sweeping generalizations like you know them and know their souls, which you don't."
I have to say, you've done me a great disservice. "making excuses for"? "Sweeping generalizations".
You say I'm making excuses for people. Your view. Let's disagree. I'm trying to understand, from God's viewpoint, who my people are.
Secondly, maybe I've misread you, but it seems like you are making sweeping generalizations. UNless I was inarticulate, I wrote, and intended to experss the view, that while SOME have surely acted from ego and selfishness, I know of many who have not, and I also believe that there are also many who have not. So I'm not going to condemn all as if they are one and only one. Don't you think that you made a massive sweeping generalization when you condemned ALL parents in your post, regardless? Did I misread you?
Finally, I mean, let's be real. How do you know what I do or don't know people and their souls, or their hearts? You don't know, do you? Or do you?
But even so, I mean, do YOU know about all the parents you have made sweeping statements about, and the content of their souls? I mean, asking for a fren. Because that is exactly what your post seems to say. Perhaps I'm just misreading it. After all, <fact> text is VERY limited in how much meaning it conveys.
Before I conclude, let me say this: I feel no animosity or annoyance towards you, or towards the preacher shouting out "repent". Indeed, we need that. Heck, we should be saying that at the top of our voices. But is that what you intended to communicate, in your post? Maybe I was just having a bad day. I didn't really quite get that. (Were you attempting to inspire people to repent by telling them that they are screwed and their children will hate them?)
Also I think I've expressed my appreciation for your posts, your presence in the board community, and more. So, after this, I'll be moving on and I'll be holding no prejudices towards you or about you. I hope it will be likewise for you, but either way....
But let me conclude with this. When I was a young boy, I had visitations from Jesus, and from other saints. I felt the grieving heart of Christ, as he wept over humanity, who, in their sin and ignorance, are suffering under the devil's thralldom. I wept many tears as I experienced, was overwhelmed, by the grief and sorrow in Jesus' heart. I forgot those experiences until I re-encountered Jesus at the ripe old age of 18. (many years ago now).
And then, when I began to actually read through scripture and pray, as an adult, through conscious choice, I noticed how many parts of scripture described and conveyed Jesus sorrow and grief at the suffering of human beings.
When I was a child, I was taught about Jesus as if he is some sort of impervious wonderful king, a judge, some glorious, transcendent, unattached being, who only felt love, joy and happiness. As an adult, through really encountering Jesus, I recognized that, like a young child who doesn't really understand what his or her parents may be going through, I had been ignorant of Jesus all along.
In my experience, if one reads the gospels, paying attention to all the times that Jesus weeps, sheds tears, and what he expresses about how he feels (indirectly through his words), then one cannot but help encounter a different kind of Jesus to the one taught by well-meaning pastors and believers who have never considered how much a man of sorrow was our Lord. Yes, he is the Lord of Glory and Light, but he also bears the sins of the world, and more importantly, the suffering of the world, in his single perfect heart.
Anyway, that's my thought.
You are certainly correct about one thing. None of them, or us, can escape the consequences of our choices.
Thanks again for replying, sharing your views. I look forward to seeing more of your posts on the board. FI
I love your fighting spirit. I've learned alot about you in your sharing. Honestly, that's really awesome, and thanks for investing the time. My initial feelings about our rooftop tendie have been confirmed. You're a fricken' good egg.
Pardon my french.
I think I do find it hard to relate to the some of the harsh feelings or what seems like hard-heartedness sometimes expressed on the board. Not because I do not despise evil or hate the results. But I'm also very wary of the devil sneaking in and creating division in people's hearts.
But I want to emphasize: I'm not championing the parents. I'm championing the children. Because when I look at people, all I see is small children and big children, grown children and immature children. From God's viewpoint (I believe) every single one of his children has been violated.
I know that there are messed out people out there. Hell is very real to me. I know what hell is like, and that's why I tend to avoid focusing on such people. But I also know a lot about what heaven is like, I'd like to think. Maybe, not sure. If heaven is feeling your father's presence every single day, then yeah.
And yes, I consider myself, extremely, very, over-the-top lucky. The blessings I've received are inexpressible, my worthiness? Well, don't wanna be arrogant and think I can know, but I know that no one is really worthy, except you know who.
So, later I'll offer a prayer for your protection, and for God to give you a double helping of fighting spirit. And, I'll also pray that IF necessary, he guides you on how to best apply it. If necessary... I'm not presuming that you aren't applying it in the best way or as God desires. I'm just saying, if you have a really powerful AK47, then use it in the best way to get the best, right effect. Hope that makes sense. Not insinuating that you aren't a good shot. Just saying that both you and I can improve our talents, to His greater glory and to our world's greater good. That's worth praying for, right?
Just one thing: "you've opened your heart so far that to me it's like overdriving your headlights. You're taking on unnecessary amts of pain when no one asked you to."
Hehe Story of my life. No, seriously, won't go into it, but it's kind of a family trait. There are times when God has indicated the exact same thing. Dude, you're opening up your heart so much it's hurting me! Lower the volume, bro. And don't carry it all so much.
Hehehe. Still very much a work in progress. And I get by with a little help from my friends.
OK. Well, its been a treat. Battering away at the keyboard, instead of working like I should be doing. But whatevs.
Hey, I'm glad your on our side. More strength and power to you.
I'll wrap it up here... FI
OK. What do I say?
You know I complained about stuff I don't like or which makes me disappointed, some of the stuff that comes across this board.
Well, I got to tell you, I just read through all three replies (like I was ripping into a box of cornflakes after a 10 day fast) and I'm really blown over. Your replies are what I LOVE MOST about this board. Really awesome _ I'm kind a lit up now _ Yeah, I can be very emotionally charged at times.
Anyway, there's a lot in the replies, but most of all (what I personally like most) is that you really come across as who you are, and your sharing something with me about who you are, how you think and why you think like you do. It's so awesome, because here's the thing. We read lines of text - a headline here, a comment there - and we often (i'm generalizing here) come away with conclusions and impressions that are really, really off. By which I mean, at least I certainly do this - I come away with an idea about a person - I'm very energetically inclined and get a sense of the energies through the words and expressions - I'm also a linguist - but it's really only when effort is made that sometimes you a can transcend those initial impressions, and get a fuller sense.
There are a bunch of things you've written that I'd like to respond to. I mean, I don;t know; I also sense who much you don't really know about me (how could you), but at a minimum, I'm really chuffed at the time and effort you've made to reply.
So, without going into to much meta-analysis, I'll try to respond naturally to a few things.
Yeah, I DO have a powerful sense of empathy and sympathy, and have had since young. However, I have also lived with a really crazy level of anger in my heart a lot of my life. It's really only in the last few years that God has begun to show me and teach me about this. I would keep so much locked down (and, perhaps, suppressed by the sorrow and other things) that when my anger came out, whew. Total blaze. Never violent (thankfully), at least, never expressed in physical violence again anyone, but certain emotional 'violence', basically like a massive raging storm.
Maybe a little hulk-like. And, it always felt deeply justified, because I was coming from a place of righteousness (I believed) and always with an intent to see the right thing happened. I would get so frustrated when I felt people were ignoring their responsibility to be good, to do right, to sacrifice themselves instead of sacrificing others for their own comfort. Really, like a hurricane, emotionally.
Only in the last two years has God revealed to me how much trauma and difficulty this created for my family, who I love profoundly and powerfully.
So I've been learning where this comes from, and what I have been in denial of, such that I could not even recognize how I felt.
I'm intense in my observations of humans, and can pick up a LOT of stuff, and am normally a very calming, supportive kind of person. But when I lose it, man, I rage as if I'd gone supernova. Which is NOT very often.
I mention all this to say, boy oh boy, if I get really triggered, when I think of evil, or what people have been doing to my people (the people of my state are MY people) then, I go lit. So, anyway, yeah, no, I'm certainly not a sad sack or one of those "oh, can't we all just get along?" type of people. But anyway. More next...
Given your description of your childhood personality and nature and how you you tackled with that, I can say I feel a sort of pride. Like, yeah, I imagine God and think he's probably feels a lot of pride in you. Not letting anyone push you around. It's awesome.
I do appreciate your comments about not being fake with regards to how one builds their relationship with Jesus. I do think I've received a lot of natural protection over the course of my life. For whatever reason, God did not put me in harms way from the nutjobs, the psychopaths, and the demonically possessed. I mean, I pick up on that sort of presence very, very quickly, and I do not interact with it, or such people. And, I've never felt drawn to.
"so I can't grieve or cry or open my heart when it just isn't in me to do it." Yeah, that's cool. I mean, we're all different. Although, I have such a rather strong prejudice with regards to Jesus, due to my experiences and living relationship with him, that I tend to forget that. And, I suppose its really true, that's an impression of Jesus that was shaped by my early experiences and nature.
Actually, my dad was very narcissistic in a lot of ways, but also very sensitive and compassionate. Interesting man, he grew up in in country where the Nazis rolled in when he was 8 years of age, and lived under their regime for about 5 years. Near starvation, massive trauma in his childhood, but he was never able to even recognize it. A large part of his heart was locked away from me, and from himself. Really a beautiful man, but a man who was buried under unrecognized inner pain. So, lol, he could be intensely and extremely intolerant of others, and yet he thought he was the most tolerant person!
As an adult, I underwent a 12 year journey in my relationship with him to find out who he was, what the nature of our relationship really was, and ended up really loving the guy.
My mum, likewise, tragic childhood. Abused by a relative as a young child with her twin sister, he mum passed away when my mum was 11, and her dad when she was 16. All locked up, unable to express many locked down emotions.
Terrier, huh. That's cool. Because we need some of that. yeah, we certainly do.
I personally think that some children will not be able to forgive their parents, but I also think that many will be able to, too. They'll recognize it. That's all I'm saying. I guess I tend to focus on certain people and certain behaviors, and I guess you do too. Just kinda different in focus. Which, really, is a very good thing. Cos God teaches us and helps us to grow through others, if we are open to Him.
I still find it a bit hard to relate to your disgust, because perhaps, yeah, I really do NOT focus on or give my attention to the shitbags who do really shitty stuff. To be honest, over a lifetime, I've learned that I cannot afford to. Because It WOULD grieve me too much, and I'd be useless. There are mountains of things out that happening that I will not allow myself to think about, because frankly, its too real. I don't need to see it to know its happening. So I give my energy and attention where I feel God directs me too. But thank God also for pedes like yourself. As long as we put Him first, then there's no real problem. He'll use you and he'll use me in the best ways possible, as long as we offer it all to him.
"But basically if I say "God forgive you because I don't think I can", well... that's the truth. I can TRY to forgive, and I can pray for that to come over me. And anyway it's not my place to forgive them anyway. But these vax-parents need forgiveness from Jesus, because they won't get it from society, and may not even get it from their own kids."
I don't quite see it that way, but I can relate to what you say, and I respect it. If you can't, you can't. Not because you're not a good person, but because you ARE a good person. Personally, I think God forces himself to forgive sometimes because he needs to, not because he wants to. I feel like I've learned so much about where you are coming from, and it inspires me to honor God more. I mean, I glorify God because I get such a much better sense of where you're at and where you're coming from. And, it's good.
--Complains about rooftop not having compassion and judgement.
--Does not have compassion and passes judgement on rooftop.
Think mirror?
Maybe. I'm not perfect. But perhaps you'll notice that the key point of my comment is to express how I feel about the post. Is that judgment?
Can you outline here where you think I've cast judgment on rooftop?
Aside from the point that I think Rooftop's reprimand/rebuke/reproving of parents who have 'injected their kids' is far too over-generalizing, factually, with regards to some parents, I think she is factually correct.
However, my reproach, if you want call it that, is a lament that rooftop's heart seems really quite hard. To me, anyway. On this point, too.
I also expressed my sincere admiration and even affection for Rooftop. How would you suggest I show compassion? I'm ALL ears. If I can learn though you, I want to.
I expressed disappointment. Is that judgment? I expressed heartache. Is that judgment? I expressed a view about how I think God sees a type of behavior. Is that judgment?
Perhaps judgment was the wrong word. She's not really judging them, except maybe in her heart. She's warning them, and reproaching them.
It's one thing to honestly share your heart; it's another thing to judge. To judgment involves condemnation.
Do I condemn Rooftop? (Question: Does she condemn the parents in this point?)
I'm fully open to reflection. But at some point, when you say you cannot offer your feelings or view on someone's actions because its judging, you establish a cycle that neutralizes any ability to feel, share and offer feedback.
Do I judge Rooftop for the post she made and how she framed her attitude? I'm certainly not condemning her. And, if I do judge, then yes, perhaps I'm at fault. How do you suggest that I express my feelings without "judging"?
Thanks for your moving reply.
I think you articulate some of the issues well; describing how the ego can attach to this or that emotion or thought, and use it as a pivot point.
"the devil wants god's children to turn on one another, its the oldest game he has ever played" This is something that the wisest of the wise remember. Divide and conquer is not merely a political ploy. It's the method of evil.
(For example, scripture explains that the serpent (the archangel Lucifer) first asked Eve "Did God say NNNN? It's not true. YYYY is true" those words had the primary single purpose of dividing Eve from her Father, by fermenting distrust and disbelief in Him. Divide, then conquer. The purpose of her faith in God and his command was to bind her to him during that period when she was vulnerable.)
I don't know that it couldn't have happened any other way. I'm not a fatalist in my faith or outlook. My faith conviction is that God's will manifests into reality based on the following formula:
God's portion of work (we'll call it God's "responsibility", which he takes on freely and with conscious choice) + the human portion of work (our responsibility, assigned to us by God, for our own benefit, for our growth, and so that we are co-creators with him) = fulfillment of God's will.
This is why history repeats, and the same patterns re-occur in history, and in scripture; because God sets up one person, or family, or people, or nation, to fulfill a certain role in His plan, and if that person, or family, or people, or nation, fails, God has to find someone else He can then set up to fulfill it. This happens again and again until the work has been done. When one person (or family, or people, or nation) fails his or her responsibility, another must eventually step up and resolve it. E.g. Adam's failure >>> resolved by Jesus. Abraham's failure (in the first offering) >>>> resolved by Isaac and Jacob. etc. NB: Parable of the vineyard: (Israel failed to recognize the Messiah, Jesus, so God established Christians as a world-level 'people' to do the job.)
Anyway, point is, I don't know if it HAD to be this way, but as you say, what has happened has happened, and attaching to that too much can lead the ego astray. I also believe that what we do today and tomorrow, can change the course of events. God is the great architect of our lives and the life of humanity, but we all have a role to play, too, to the best of our ability.
Your emphasis on love, compassion, and praying for healing are ... well, just great. When we practice such a heart, I believe GOd's heart is much comforted.
Thank you very much for your comment.