As much as our government has been infiltrated by the enemy, so has the church. Maybe even moreso.
This is a dangerous doctrine. IT IS NOT FROM SCRIPTURE.
I do realize some big lofty names in the bible scholar community are big time rapturists. Moody - for example. But I've been on a quest for a week or so to find anyone of them making solid arguments with actual scriptural foundation to support the dubious claims of the rapture doctrine - and they just simply cannot support it in the scripture.
If you want me to explain further I'll be happy to. But what you should do is go to the bible and find where it makes any claim that Christians will be removed from earth BEFORE or in the middle of the tribulations described in prophecy.
The oft cited verses in Mathew are literally right after Jesus warns you not to be deceived and explains how not to be deceived by knowing the signs of the season of His return. In Luke he even says that "two men will be lying in one bed, one will be taken the other left behind." I don't know why there are two dudes in one bed but I want the rapturist to question why someone sleeping in bed would be raptured (I notice many claiming that you must be alert and watching at the special time).
In Thesolonians 4: Paul clearly teaches that the dead in Christ will be resurrected before the beloved verse about we who are alive at the time going to meet Jesus in the air. I don't have a problem with that - just don't misunderstand that the dead in Christ go "FIRST".
In Rev 20 - Jesus gives us more clarity and explains that in the "First resurrection" people who refused the mark of the beast unto death would rise in that "First resurrection" too.
The rapture doctrine is dangerous for our generation. We appear to be appointed for this time, please do not be deceived.
Here is a good article defending a pretrib rapture. A HEBRAIC PERSPECTIVE: IS THERE IS A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE OR NOT? By Professor WA Liebenberg. Probably my favorite argument is the typology of a Jewish wedding.
The Rapture and the Second Coming are two seperate events This is something that many people get confused about.
Apostasia - Does it mean a falling away or the departure? The man of sin can not be revealed until the rapture takes place.
I appreciate these and when I have time I will read through them. But I'm not seeking commentary or reaching speculations from people who have not addressed the plain and simple problems with the rapture being contrary to what Jesus plainly says.
I'm saying this before reading their statements. I just want you to understand my position is not that rapture is hard to see in scripture. My position is that scripture directly rejects this pre-trib rapture theory.
Interesting question for the "to the Jews" crew:
Is dismissal of Jesus' plain words with "for the Jews" an admission that Jesus was clearly saying "post trib" if it WASN'T to the Jews? I think they should admit that before running away from the Matt. 24
Also, that day...Jesus had been speaking to "the Jews" ALL DAY. Why wait until he was back with His disciples who already followed Him?
Like any doctrine of demons, this boils down to "Ye shall NOT surely die!"...it denies Gods clearly-spoken words. But doesn't have the balls to frontally attack Jesus words as not true. It deflects by denying the intended audience.
Your take on this is excellent.
looking at this debate I must say, the vast acceptance of this doctrine is scary. There will be mass confusion in the wilderness.
Thank you. Mighty kind words from the guy I've watched carry the ball in this thread. Lifelong Baptist, so I have decades of theological error (re: eschatology) to make up for.
I finally got time to watch the first vid. - I can see why many are confused. He reads right over "the dead in Christ shall rise first"... then insists this rapture event is happening before tribulations... before the second (third) coming. You can argue that the resurrection and the rapture are two separate events, but can you really say that Paul had them massively out of order?
At another point he says that they ask Jesus "Where Lord?" in Luke. He ignores most translations that have that "body" meaning a carcass and he assumes it is the Body of Christ, so Eagles fly, that must be the air ... moving on. This is terrible explaining. I still ponder the true meaning here. I think it is saying that this death he just prophesied will encompass the earth, there will be dead bodies everywhere and you'll be able to know from a distance because of the birds. Kind of like what happens after his actual second coming and the birds of earth are invited to feast on the flesh of those carcasses.
The second video hangs on whether you want to believe this guy's definition of apostasy. He suggests the word "departure" like at an airport when you're going on vacation. And then with a crowbar, forces it into rapture theory.
Even in the Greek it does not mean a happy departure - it means an abandonment from what you once professed or claimed to believe.
KJ got it right with "falling away" and maybe the motivation was to put distance from a misunderstanding of the word departure.