Who else should be added to this list? (This was chrono. Not based on badassedness.)
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (20)
sorted by:
Tell me more about your mixed feelings of Lincoln and Reagan. What did we give up by the control of these Presidents. Iām still trying to learn our real history.
Please see the reply I commented to u/cathole953 for more info. He gives some good info, needed some slight clarification.
Well with Lincoln it was mainly an issue of states rights. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro slavery, but the blatant federal government overreach that happened leading up to the civil war pretty much kills any narrative of the North being "the good guys". It's A REALLY long and complex story, but the short version that hits the most blatant problem, was that cotton and tobacco, the two most abundant cash crops in the south, were selling for 3-5X as much in Europe at the time. Europe was still recovering from Napoleon at this time and trying to sort things out, so pretty much everything was mess. Ergo, the relied on mass imports from other areas of the world, and the US was prime import territory for them in terms of cotton and tobacco.
So obviously, wealthy southerners did just that, and the north didn't like that. This is around the time the industrial revolution REALLY started kicking in, and northern factories started popping up using "modern" tech. But these were the type of factories where they essentially used slave labor in all but name which eventually led to the formation of unions and the rise of the robber barons.
Anyway, the north wanted the souths dirt cheap cotton and over crops to feed their production, but few southerners would be willing to sell to them in the quantities they were wanting. Combine with the civil war era equivalent of virtue signaling in the form of abolition (because THEIR slave factories were so much better because they paid them a dollar a month) and it all led to a string of federal overreaches where tariffs were levied that would ONLY effect southern states, resulting in GDP drops, and their economies taking a massive hit.
When southern states still refused to comply and started passing laws combatting the federal overreach, the feds just started forcing the military and marshals service to enforce their baseless laws. Then the abolitionists gained momentum and, struggling southern states saw that as the last straw since they knew that as things were, they'd never recover if slavery were abolished as well. So they seceded and started the civil war.
Mississippi is a wonderful example of all this. Believe it or not, Mississippi was wealthiest state in the union at one point. Then after years of unjust tariffs, the civil war, ridiculous reconstruction regulations, etc. Mississippi has been devastated to the point that, to this day, it's now the poorest state in the union. Most other southern states eventually figured out new ways to boost their economies and adjusted. Some took longer than others, but Mississippi has never fully recovered.
So yeah, Lincoln isn't the hero everyone thinks he is. As for Reagan, well as I said, he was pretty good, but it's because of Regan we have the Hughes Amendment to the NFA. So Reagan is the reason you can't own a Machine Gun. Likewise, Reagan is the one who started this Amnesty for illegals crap when he gave millions of illegals citizenship. In other words, Reagan gave us our single biggest setbacks in terms of gun rights and the fight against illegal immigration.
I love the help on this topic, but you have a few key things so jacked up it hurts to read.
Abolitionists were not abortionists. Nothing in common. Abolitionists wanted to end slavery, and had a thing about states rights vs. Federal.
The big issue of the whole war was states rights. One of the big reasons the South hated the north was two fold. Abolitionists wanted to free slaves, which they believed abborhant, yet no one wanted them to migrate to the north because of prejudice. South wanted the cheap labor, as it was a cheap, effective way to keep profit on the tobacco and cotton crops they relied on.
There were many instances where southerners also believed slavery was wrong, but saw no solution that wouldn't crash their economy.
The north played a vindictive, shortsighted game to pressure the south by driving textile prices down while also seemingly taking the moral high ground on slavery. They offered no real alternative that didnt end up ruining the south, at least in the eyes of the cotton farmers..
Read period letters from before CW started, check the newspapers, read the Lincoln letters.
Abe was a fantastic president that the early cabal undermined. He was plagued with the worst generals, bad advisors, and few supporters of note.
Abe's whole presidency was the preservation of the Union at all costs, otherwise it would be the end of them.
France, England and Spain were all still buttsore from 1776, and more than anything would love to see a divided nation they could start slicing up, retaking their colonies. Lincoln believed, for better or worse, two nations would not be strong enough to fend off invasion, least considering the North and Souths interdependence of economy.
Each side found allies from the old world.
Abe made a deal with the federalist to suspend states rights to prevent secession and call it a rebellion. Invented a bunch of taxes to support saving the union, then was assassinated before he could repeal them (he always intended to remove them and give states back their power.)
Abes flaw in perfect hindsight was to overstep federal power to save the union, which only condemned it to what we have now. So yes, you are correct that the South was right for that part.
However, neither side had what you would call the moral high ground. Both had broken views and both were at fault. There was no good side bad side during that war.
I know there are holes/gaps in this, but history is too long to flesh out in one comment.
Wasn't really comparing abortion to slavery in that kind of terms. More that it was THE hot button issue of the day where everyone took the moral high ground. Which is rather funny when you consider what I said about the north having slavery in all but name in their factories. Because as I said, paying someone a dollar a month, if that, while forcing them to live in inhumane living conditions while working 20 hour days 7 days a week is SOOOOO much better than actual slavery. At least the slaves actually were taken care of in most cases since they were viewed the same as livestock, and how many farmers are going to beat their mule or horse to death?
It's even more accurate to compare them when you consider that and look at all of these deranged leftists that claim the moral high ground on things like gun control, war, etc. because people lose their lives, but then turn around and demand their "right" to kill babies.
Thanks for the clarification. šš
I kinda wondered if that was what you were doing, just seemed an odd thing, glad to hear.
Agreed. Black folk in general were treated almost worse in some cases because of how they were viewed in the north, correct.
Interesting historical side note, among other minorities, the Irish, Italian and Chinese imigrants in some cases were treated even worse, and were denied work where blacks were allowed. Discrimination was and is not the sole dominion of the African American.
Documented cases of 5 year Olds working in factories fixing machinery as they were the only ones who would fit in tight spaces.
If something jammed, send in the kid, and it's their fault for losing a hand when it started up again, they should have gotten out of the way quicker when it fired up.
In some unsubstantiated letters, unfortunate worker child bodies were left in the gearworks until next shutdown so as to not stop production.