Admittedly I don't always do this, but I wish I would, for, like Ben Franklin, I have seen how my opinions are received based on how I choose to deliver them, and when I have taken this advice, I'm much more persuasive, and make much fewer enemies.
What was this advice?
Turns out Ben Franklin was a bit of an asshole when he disagreed with others. Said one friend of his:
"Ben, you are impossible. Your opinions have a slap in them for everyone who differs with you. They have become so offensive that nobody cares for them. Your friends find they enjoy themselves better when you are not around. You know so much that no man can tell you anything. Indeed, no man is going to try, for the effort would lead only to discomfort and hard work. So you are not likely ever to know any more than you do now, which is very little."
Ben said that after pondering the validity of this stern rebuke, and finding merit in it, he committed to a new way of approaching disagreement:
“I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiment of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbade myself the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fixed opinion, such as ‘certainly,’ ‘undoubtedly,’ etc., and I adopted, instead of them, ‘I conceive,’ ‘I apprehend,’ or ‘I imagine’ a thing to be so or so, or ‘it so appears to me at present.’ When another asserted something that I thought an error, I denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly, and of showing immediately some absurdity in his proposition: and in answering I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appeared or seemed to me some difference, etc."
What was the result of this new approach?
"I soon found the advantage of this change in my manner; the conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I proposed my opinions procured them a readier reception and less contradiction; I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevailed with others to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right."
Now, I realize that many of you have a fervent zeal regarding your faith and around your understanding of scripture. And I know it can be frustrating when you happen upon someone else who in the same breath both dares to call himself a Christian and yet, disagrees with you on points of doctrine that, to you anyway, seem obvious and practically axiomatic...
But...while I'm sure your intentions are good, and while I'm sure you feel somehow it is your duty to right any wrongthink that deals with the topic of Christ and salvation and all that good stuff...may I humbly suggest that if your goal really is to help others see the error of their ways, that you consider this advice before letting your fingers run across that keyboard too quickly?
I know this may sound crazy, but it IS possible for two sincere and intelligent Christians to see various points of doctrine in very different ways.
Now, maybe your way IS the right way, but what kind of a chance do you honestly think you stand of helping a fellow patriot see the light that you see if you speak to him as if he's dumber than a Democrat and twice as dangerous? I realize you may feel that his error may even risk his salvation but isn't that all the more reason to tread carefully and speak respectfully?
And if you fail to sway him, is it really necessary to imply that the only reason you have is because he's secretly a demon of some kind? Can't you humbly accept the possibility that you just weren't very persuasive in this instance, and pray for wisdom about how to become more persuasive in the future? I know it's tempting to flex your knowledge and fire off scriptures you're sure will settle the question and go medieval on your perceived opponent if it fails to do the trick but maybe...just maybe...a bit more patience and respect might be in order?
And maybe, just maybe, you yourself could maybe even (gulp) be in the wrong from time to time? And if you are, wouldn't you want to know?
But how can you if your own ego is fired up and you're caught in a battle of wits and name-calling with someone who, quite frankly, is only here because they love this country like you do, and is likely discussing this particular topic with you, because, like you, he also loves God, Jesus, and the Bible, just like you do? Is that really someone you want to offend?
Anyway. Like I said, I know I'm just as guilty as anyone on this topic from time to time, and I wrote this as a reminder to myself as much as anyone else, but hopefully others will read this and maybe pivot their own approach as well.
WWG1WGA
Cheers.
*edit - Link to the pdf of Ben Franklin's autobiography, where I got this, should anyone desire to read it: https://icrrd.com/media/31-10-2020-083612How%20to%20Win%20Friends%20and%20Influence%20People%20-%20Dale%20Carnegie.pdf
It's also quoted in "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.
+1 for a high-energy thread.
I have a comment to make. I am a conservative, reserved Christian, and never post to the Scripture/prayer threads for a couple of different reasons. I read your thread because of your interesting OP.
The handful of times I've had EXTREMELY unpleasant interactions with other members of this forum, where they went completely off the rails, disregarding the rules of the forum, calling names, etc., etc., despite me remaining civil and reasonable, on topics having nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity...were all members who post frequently to the Scripture/prayer threads. I know this because I reviewed their post history.
Why is that?
Because they are cultists just like the commies? They were just socialized or brainwashed into a Christian religion.
That is why I do not like organized religion.
Give me my Christ straight, without the trappings.
Whenever you have an organized religion or a "church" you have to get people involved to maintain it.
There's a saying: the more times people touch a thing (a process, a file, for example), the greater the opportunities to screw it up.
Religion is no exception.
Organized religion has too many people touching it.
It's both and, not either or.
The New Testament epistles repeat over and over the idea of "one." One body of Christ united by one baptism. One Church that is the pillar of truth. One faith and one set of belief. If we deny the Church entirely, we deny the possibility of knowing Christ fully and truthfully.
Part of Christ's ministry on earth was to establish His Church, multiple times He speaks of building His Church. Without the Church, we have no certitude or authority of which we're able to know what beliefs are true and what are wrong. Without viewing Scripture in the context of the Church, we fall into dangerous beliefs like nestorianism, arianism, anti-Trinitarianism, so on and so forth.
I understand the notion of rejecting "organized religion", but it's antithetical to the entirety of the Bible. God killed people for worshipping Him incorrectly, God established a liturgy, rituals, priesthoods, temples, and organized structure to the OT Faith. There are extensives passages in Exodus that talk about the liturgy and the organized structure of worship.
The Apostles did the same, they established a liturgy, priesthoods, clerics, jurisdictions, churches, held councils, etc. To deny the organized religion aspect is to deny the Bible.