I think I summoned up the question rather well in the title.
Am I nuts in believing this or am I among the roughly 8% that can see beyond the show?
Ok, I have to laugh that sounded too much like the Matrix!
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Please hear me out before reacting emotionally or brushing me off. You are entitled to your opinion and I'm not stealing it away from you.
Here's my take.
The theory about the US being a for-profit corporation has been circulated on telegram and other platforms since 2020 and has recently picked up support on GAW. It is, however, an even older theory.
The "sovereign citizen" movement has been making this claim for a long time, it is in fact where it originated. It is by far not the only claim that is being made by the self-proclaimed sovereign citizens. They believe that by writing their name on a piece of paper and sending it along with $ 150 to the "postmaster general" they become "sovereign" in the eyes of the law and are then permitted to drive without a license & stop paying taxes, amongst other similarly unfounded beliefs. Their theories are almost always accompanied by a confusing & mistaken explanation about Maritime law, lower- and upper case lettering on government IDs and sometimes "quantum grammar" as well as "Nesara / Gesara".
Conspiracy theory forums have known about and debunked these claims many times over but they sound so good that many people just want them to be true despite the abundant contradictory facts.
I invite you to do your own research by looking into the "sovereign citizen movement" & researching what the term "corporation" truly means in certain legal documents.
For example in this US code about debt collection:
(15)“United States” means— (A)a Federal corporation; (B)an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or (C)an instrumentality of the United States. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/3002
There are also countless "debunks" about this topic including the 1871 Act that are well researched.
TLDR; In my opinion, we (people) are mostly ignorant when it comes to legalese and this misunderstanding of the term "corporation" has led to this particular conspiracy theory; sovereign citizen movement perpetuates it.
Good post. Lots of people have gotten themselves into a mess of legal trouble by declaring themselves sovereign citizens
You make a very good point here. This sounds like the law is talking about money a person owes to the United States. And this can be owed in several ways, so
You also make a very good point about needing to be careful about legal langauge. Often laws will have a section like this where they lay out the legal definition of what seems like common words.
Exactly. Too many people think the sole definition of the word "corporation" means a for-profit company/business. Which is inexcusable in this day and age of having the ability to carry around every dictionary known to man in your pocket.
Dictionaries with updated progressive edits, unfortunately.
Then go old school and get a print edition from whichever year you like.
And bigger pockets to carry it in 😀
Some of the Sovereign Citizen stuff is just mind-numbingly ridiculous to me. The lengths people will go to try to get out of paying speeding tickets, child support, or their vehicle registration is insane.
And while those that admire the Sovereign Citizen Movement will go on and on about their lofty ideals, whenever a case of theirs makes it to court, it's usually over something related to what I listed above.
If they can tell you that you have to pay vehicle registration, they can tell you to do anything. The principle is the same, just farther down the road.
Either we are free, or we are not. No middle ground.
As best as I can tell, there are only a few classes of people - Kings/Sovereigns, Priests/Nobles, Serfs/Slaves. It has long been said that America is a nation of Sovereigns.
Then they tell you to put a sticker on your windshield and a plate on both bumpers so they can track you, and everyone bends the knee.
Kings don’t kneel.
To put it another way, “It’s not about the $5, it’s about the principle of the thing. The slippery slope is very real and dangerous.”
We can end this war as kings or as slaves. Until then, we simply need to know that we have all fallen and are in need of redemption.
John 1:4-7 To the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The FBI says sovereign citizens are terrorists. That says two things - they want us to be slaves, for one, and for two, they themselves are in terror of the righteousness of God, or they would not have a terror of sovereigns.
Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
Edited Note: This isn’t a defense of “The Sovereign Citizen Movement”, as I don’t know much about them. They might be a bunch of jerks, or wrong on a lot of topics. This is only statements in favor of the foundational state of being a free American, which could accurately be called a “sovereign citizen”. Two different things.
Thank you for this. All this corporation stuff is trash. They never provide sources other than the 1871 stuff, which shows nothing. This is right up there with flat earth bullshit.
OK, I've heard you out. Checked your sources.
Here's what I wrote:
It just so happens I encounter this type of reasoning all the time. The last iteration was a Germanite, claiming native status under UN treaty. He also claimed fatal deficiencies at the 1814 process of setting up the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
The Judge: a priori goes that everyone is held to obey the law.
The funny part is officially the judge has to address all items raised. The judge skirted the issue. Hence, his ruling is open to appeal. ( which I trust will not happen)
Why skirting the issue? Because the basis on which things were done is fraudulent i.e. null and void.
And this is the issue in both our countries.
As far as the contents of your post is concerned with sovereign citizen, well, that term is a contradictio in terminis.
Corporation = paper. Without paper, there is no corporation as you have only living men. We've known that since the introduction of the Juridical Person.
The fatal flaw in the whole legal theater is Person. PER SONA => by means of sound. Juridical Person is an impossibility. It is fiction, fake, phony, fraud! And such fraud only exists on paper.
And yes, I agree there is a lot of bullshit being peddled as the truth. Some have tried and failed. But at least they've tried. Quite often, people, instead of thoroughly researching their case, eat up anything that reverberates with their own level of BS.
With that said: Check case no: 20-40375-KKS Tallahassee Division of the Florida Bankruptcy Court. Filing May 4th 2020 by a certain guy you may well know: Donald J. Trump.
And note the role of IRS numbers and bank accounts.
Enjoy the rabbit hole!
Stating I am a sovereign citizen is as a much a contradiction as saying I am a black white man or a I am a king slave.
Every time a soul checks yes on a form asking if they are a citizen of the United states they are declaring they are property of said entity or rather they are a corporate entity doing business within "their" jurisdiction and therefore subject to "their" statutes of commerce and being.
One can legally denounce citizenship and take their sovereignty back by becoming a state national from what I've heard but even those terms state and national sound like contradictio in terminis.,
So how does one legally challenge the Corporation's presumption that we are mere cargo on board a vessel who they can dictate mercantile laws to because they presume it is their sea on which our boat floats?
I've heard the whole, go into court and proclaim your true identity appearing by divine appointment and having gold and silver and blah blah blah.
You sound like you know ... what is your truth?