You are so unbelievably ill-informed. No Catholic says 'you cannot get to the Son without the mother'. No Catholic 'worships' Mary.
As far as statues, fine clothes, idols, etc -- read Exodus, where God explicitly tells Moses how he wants to be worshiped.
Not all 'physical images' are idols. If they are, you better remove from your house every picture of your family.
Your blathering might work on people that don't know their faith - but it won't work here.
Where would you like to start? With Paul? With the Old Testament? With the Early Church Fathers who were unanimous in their descriptions of the Mass, the Eucharist, and the liturgical worship that you have decided to abandon?
You cannot believe in the Bible and reject the Early Church Fathers. They are the ones who compiled the Bible - the ones that had the wisdom (passed down through the Apostles) - to determine which books belonged in Sacred Scripture.
Or can you point to the Table of Contents within Scripture itself? The Bible that you worship (correctly) is a product of the Church that you have abandoned. Your comments are the epitome of self-delusion, and an unwillingness to research the truth.
I usually don't get this worked up, but to have a so-called Christian speak so ungraciously is an abomination. Go to school. Read what the Early Church Fathers believed - some of whom wrote about the Church while the Apostles were still alive to inform them. Or do you know more because you are 2000 years removed from the situation?
"Mary having co-operated in our redemption with so much glory to God and so much love for us, Our Lord ordained that no one shall obtain salvation except through her intercession."
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori
"To give worthy praise to the Lord's mercy, we unite ourselves with Your Immaculate Mother, for then our hymn will be more pleasing to You, because She is chosen from among men and angels. Through Her, as through a pure crystal, Your mercy was passed on to us. Through Her, man became pleasing to God; Through Her, streams of grace flowed down upon us."
St. Faustina
Seems to me like your “saints” think that Mary is the way to heaven.
You reply with more talking points? Where is you refutation? Where is your evidence? I've got plenty!
I told you that I'd openly debate you -- pick your spot. Paul, Old Testament, Church Fathers. You know, something that was written down long ago, not a modern day preacher that wants to tell you 'everything is easy, come to my church, help me pay my rent.'
You sound just like a liberal, spouting 'the other guy is bad' while refusing to read the Biblical and historical evidence. I teach Scripture. I can answer anything you'd like to throw at me.
And again, just like a liberal, saying 'look how fragile you are', 'you should have ignored my devilish words if you were really strong', in other words -- 'I should be allowed to say anything without being challenged'. Not here.
You want to know who 'follows the traditions of men'? Those who followed men away from Jesus Christ's Church.
You want to know who 'follows Satan'? Those who slander and divide.
Where is your evidence? You show me your wishful interpretations, and I'll show you my hard, cold evidence. Or do you not want to play with someone who knows their stuff?
Explain to me how the men who learned directly from the Apostles are unanimous in their description of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more -- but you, 2000 years later, somehow 'know better'. If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', explain why you believe in the Bible that they put together.
Of course, you could also just throw back some talking points that make you feel comfortable...
Your challenges are infantile. This is just off the top of my head...
Graven images that are idols are forbidden. Not any image. Again, that would mean that you would need to remove all family photos from your house. Have you done that?
Exodus 25:17:22 - Note that this is GOD speaking to Moses (assumedly you will accept God's authority)...
“Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you. 22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.
This is AFTER God hands down the Ten Commandments, where he says 'no idols'. Do you think he forgot? Just had a lot on his mind that day?
God says no graven images that are other gods. Give up on the idol argument. You lose. God himself has spoken.
Regarding 'Holy Father'.... In Matthew 16, Jesus says (I hope you accept his authority), that Peter shall get 'the keys to the kingdom of heaven'. There is only one other place in the entire Bible that mentions someone getting 'keys to the kingdom', and that is Isaiah 22. (This is known as typology, where something in the OT foreshadows a fulfillment in the NT.) In OT times, when a king had to leave the kingdom, he gave 'the keys' to someone who had authority to 'open and shut' or 'bind and loose' in order to keep the kingdom in one piece. (Only one Church can claim that record, by the way.) Jesus was just about to leave this world, so he assigned the keys to Peter. The OT prefigurement is in Isaiah 22:
20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a FATHER to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
That last line echoes 'What is bound/loosed on earth is bound/loosed in heaven'. More authority.
You still haven't addressed my main question to you. Will you ignore it once again?
Explain to me how the Early Church Fathers (the men who learned directly from the Apostles) are unanimous in their writings of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more.
If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', why do you believe in the Bible that THESE MEN put together?
Peter has never been historically verified as the bishop of Rome, that is purely Catholic tradition. No apostle held up Peter has being more special or authoritative than the rest of the group.
No apostle ever taught salvation by works, as the Catholics do.
No apostle ever taught the existence of Purgatory.
No apostle taught us to pray to dead saints (and the OT specifically bans attempting to communicate with the dead).
No apostle ever taught long, vain, repetitious prayers, and Jesus specifically warned against such practices.
No apostle ever commanded to murder those who teach the gospel and translate the Bible, something the Catholics did for centuries.
You are so unbelievably ill-informed. No Catholic says 'you cannot get to the Son without the mother'. No Catholic 'worships' Mary.
As far as statues, fine clothes, idols, etc -- read Exodus, where God explicitly tells Moses how he wants to be worshiped.
Not all 'physical images' are idols. If they are, you better remove from your house every picture of your family.
Your blathering might work on people that don't know their faith - but it won't work here.
Where would you like to start? With Paul? With the Old Testament? With the Early Church Fathers who were unanimous in their descriptions of the Mass, the Eucharist, and the liturgical worship that you have decided to abandon?
You cannot believe in the Bible and reject the Early Church Fathers. They are the ones who compiled the Bible - the ones that had the wisdom (passed down through the Apostles) - to determine which books belonged in Sacred Scripture.
Or can you point to the Table of Contents within Scripture itself? The Bible that you worship (correctly) is a product of the Church that you have abandoned. Your comments are the epitome of self-delusion, and an unwillingness to research the truth.
I usually don't get this worked up, but to have a so-called Christian speak so ungraciously is an abomination. Go to school. Read what the Early Church Fathers believed - some of whom wrote about the Church while the Apostles were still alive to inform them. Or do you know more because you are 2000 years removed from the situation?
Seems to me like your “saints” think that Mary is the way to heaven.
A lot of Christians hate other Christians more than they hate satan it seems, walk away from the satanic church.
https://files.catbox.moe/0ea0eo.jpg
https://files.catbox.moe/w0le50.webp
You reply with more talking points? Where is you refutation? Where is your evidence? I've got plenty!
I told you that I'd openly debate you -- pick your spot. Paul, Old Testament, Church Fathers. You know, something that was written down long ago, not a modern day preacher that wants to tell you 'everything is easy, come to my church, help me pay my rent.'
You sound just like a liberal, spouting 'the other guy is bad' while refusing to read the Biblical and historical evidence. I teach Scripture. I can answer anything you'd like to throw at me.
And again, just like a liberal, saying 'look how fragile you are', 'you should have ignored my devilish words if you were really strong', in other words -- 'I should be allowed to say anything without being challenged'. Not here.
You want to know who 'follows the traditions of men'? Those who followed men away from Jesus Christ's Church.
You want to know who 'follows Satan'? Those who slander and divide.
Where is your evidence? You show me your wishful interpretations, and I'll show you my hard, cold evidence. Or do you not want to play with someone who knows their stuff?
Explain to me how the men who learned directly from the Apostles are unanimous in their description of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more -- but you, 2000 years later, somehow 'know better'. If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', explain why you believe in the Bible that they put together.
Of course, you could also just throw back some talking points that make you feel comfortable...
Your challenges are infantile. This is just off the top of my head...
Graven images that are idols are forbidden. Not any image. Again, that would mean that you would need to remove all family photos from your house. Have you done that?
Exodus 25:17:22 - Note that this is GOD speaking to Moses (assumedly you will accept God's authority)...
“Make an atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. 21 Place the cover on top of the ark and put in the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you. 22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.
This is AFTER God hands down the Ten Commandments, where he says 'no idols'. Do you think he forgot? Just had a lot on his mind that day?
God says no graven images that are other gods. Give up on the idol argument. You lose. God himself has spoken.
Regarding 'Holy Father'.... In Matthew 16, Jesus says (I hope you accept his authority), that Peter shall get 'the keys to the kingdom of heaven'. There is only one other place in the entire Bible that mentions someone getting 'keys to the kingdom', and that is Isaiah 22. (This is known as typology, where something in the OT foreshadows a fulfillment in the NT.) In OT times, when a king had to leave the kingdom, he gave 'the keys' to someone who had authority to 'open and shut' or 'bind and loose' in order to keep the kingdom in one piece. (Only one Church can claim that record, by the way.) Jesus was just about to leave this world, so he assigned the keys to Peter. The OT prefigurement is in Isaiah 22:
20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a FATHER to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
That last line echoes 'What is bound/loosed on earth is bound/loosed in heaven'. More authority.
You still haven't addressed my main question to you. Will you ignore it once again?
Explain to me how the Early Church Fathers (the men who learned directly from the Apostles) are unanimous in their writings of the Mass, the Eucharist, the Church structure, and more.
If they were so wrong-headed and 'followers of Satan', why do you believe in the Bible that THESE MEN put together?
The Apostles never taught transubstantiation.
Peter has never been historically verified as the bishop of Rome, that is purely Catholic tradition. No apostle held up Peter has being more special or authoritative than the rest of the group.
No apostle ever taught salvation by works, as the Catholics do.
No apostle ever taught the existence of Purgatory.
No apostle taught us to pray to dead saints (and the OT specifically bans attempting to communicate with the dead).
No apostle ever taught long, vain, repetitious prayers, and Jesus specifically warned against such practices.
No apostle ever commanded to murder those who teach the gospel and translate the Bible, something the Catholics did for centuries.
Shall I continue?