This is corporate property, not private property correct? And corporate property is sold all the time when a company goes into receivership. That's my understanding.
Before we go further, are you familiar with the New York Executive law on this? It's pretty broad
Because I've heard several people refer to this as the corporate death penalty.
The attorney general of New York could have but did not in this case, ask for a complete dissolution of a company.
What do you mean the judge made a move but it was never approved?
Only when it's a publicly traded company. The Trump Group is a wholely owned privately held company. The rules are different for governing public and private companies.
And it usually is, but real estate is wonderfully unique in that the rules applied to real estate are often different and unique compared to say, a stock trading firm. A stock firm in receivership can be forced to liquidate its assets to pay back its customers if it's found to have taken part in fraud.
This is different. They're saying that Trump inflated the values of his properties to achieve loans that he didn't qualify for. Those loans have all been paid off. The only debt Trump has is a recently refinanced loan one of his NY properties and a mortgage on that building he partially owns in California that he took out a cash out refinance on.
The loans they're claiming he fraudulently received have been paid back for years, ergo they can't force him to liquidate his assets and give up control, as there isn't anyone to pay back.
And no, they couldn't ask for a complete dissolution, as the Trump Group is an international organization spanning roughly 15 states, and 28 countries. The Judge has zero jurisdiction or authority over 99% of the properties that make up of the Trump Group.
And the Judge made the move (legal jargon) to prevent Trump from being able to move his assets, but it was never approved by the courts. The fact that Trump sold the DC Hotel/Post Office is proof enough of that, as if I remember correctly, it was Incorporated in NY when Trump first bought the 99 year lease on the property.
I don't think a lot of what you're saying is correct. For one, I don't think 99% of the value of the Trump organization is outside New York City.
Yes, Trump has a golf course in Scotland and a social club in Florida but when he did his valuations I was in New York organization that did them
Been looking for folks to explain what the what receivership in this case would be and loss of assets certainly seems to be a possibility because it is the receiver alongside the judge who decides what happens with the dissolution of the company
I don't think 99% of the value of the Trump organization is outside New York City.
I don't know about 99%, but he has properties all over the world.
I would think that a good 80%-90% (or more) are outside of New York.
Been looking for folks to explain what the what receivership in this case would be and loss of assets certainly seems to be a possibility because it is the receiver alongside the judge who decides what happens with the dissolution of the company
Did you know that OJ Simpson still has (AFAIK) a $30 million judgement against him for the wrongful death of Ron Goldman by Goldman's family?
He never paid any of it. Probably still looking for the "real killer."
Although there is a judgement against him, all of his assets were already legally protected.
My guess is that those NY properties have various liens on them, held by trusts outside of NY, and with trustees and beneficiaries that are not named Trump.
In theory and if that were the case, those properties could not be sold because there would be no equity, or they would be foreclosed on by those out-of-state trusts/entities, and wind up back in the family, so to speak.
I say "in theory," because we are dealing with criminals in the courtrooms and the government, so they could try all sorts of illegal games to protect themselves and their puppet masters from their own criminal prosecutions, eventually.
Yeah, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. A fine isn't a credit debt (like what you keep referring to with receiverships). It's a fine. Two legally distinct types of debts.
Second of all, I don't know what you don't seem to understand about that 4th amendment here. It prevents Trump from having to surrender his personal property (he wholely owns the entire company), to the government for any reason other than owed back taxes. If nothing else, he would simply have to pay the fine, not surrender control of his properties and liquidate them.
And finally, a quick look at Trumps ACTUAL website proves you wrong on where his property concentration is.
A grand total of 71 unique properties, of which 25 reside in NY. So yes my obviously exaggerate 99% wasn't true, but 65% of the Trump Groups assets and property lie outside of the Jurisdiction of NY. In fact, 18 properties, or a little over 25% of the Trump Groups assets/Properties, are in foreign nations, where not a single judge in the United States has Authority to "dissolve the organization".
For the record, Mar-A-Lago alone has an estimated Value of a little over $300 MIllion. So considering Trump's Estimated Net Worth is $2.2 Billion last I checked, Mar-A-Lago makes up 13.6% of his Net Worth.
The majority of Trumps Net Worth DID fall in New York at one point, but that's not true anymore. The majority of his Major properties have lost value and income over the past several years as NY, Chicago, etc have run the cities into the ground. On the other hand, Florida, where Trump has 7 Large scale properties, is where the largest portion of his Net Worth is now located, because property values and cap rates (The financial measure of income generated from real estate) have sky rocketed in Florida and other Southeastern States in the same period of time.
If you wanna get technical, all of his Indian Properties are up there now too since India is becoming China 2.0 in terms of economic growth, meaning it's a hotbed for rapid development.
I read that many years ago, the Rockefeller Center was sold for mega millions.
The property was owned by a trust. The "buyer" simply set up a new trust and funded it with mega millions. Then, the trust that owned the real estate and the trust that owned the cash simply switched trustees.
Abracadabra ... no recognizable sale was made, but each party got what they wanted.
Lots of these games can be played, especially for the Rockefellers, who have trusts that were established prior to the tax law changes in 1969, making their trusts forever tax free.
When Mitt Romney ran for president, he disclosed assets and tax returns. He had a $100 million IRA. Hard to do if you are saving $5,000 per year and investing in mutual funds.
But ... if you are doing private equity deals, using Cayman Islands structures, along with some sophisticated partnership structures that your IRA owns a part of, it is easy peasy.
I have no idea what Trump's finanical structure looks like behind the scenes, but I would bet he will be alright, financially.
You can look at page 32 of the judges ruling for "entity defendants" to see what companies are involved.
There's two LLCs with DJT holdings in the name that sit atop the Trump organization and basically all the LLCs were most of them roll up into them. These entities in addition to Trump and his family, the corporations themselves were were found to be liable for fraud.
It's also clear that property outside NY is involved in this case. For example, 401 North Wabash venture, LLC is about the Trump hotel in Chicago. There's another LLC named after the old post office in DC that became the Trump hotel.
How many of the businesses outside New York City are worth anything close to what 40 Wall Street is worth? That's why I mentioned valuation, not just number of buildings. Oh, and the assessed value of Mara Lago is included in part of the trial. It's actually one of the things that was found to be fraudulent in this ruling.
This is corporate property, not private property correct? And corporate property is sold all the time when a company goes into receivership. That's my understanding.
Before we go further, are you familiar with the New York Executive law on this? It's pretty broad Because I've heard several people refer to this as the corporate death penalty.
The attorney general of New York could have but did not in this case, ask for a complete dissolution of a company.
What do you mean the judge made a move but it was never approved?
Only when it's a publicly traded company. The Trump Group is a wholely owned privately held company. The rules are different for governing public and private companies.
And it usually is, but real estate is wonderfully unique in that the rules applied to real estate are often different and unique compared to say, a stock trading firm. A stock firm in receivership can be forced to liquidate its assets to pay back its customers if it's found to have taken part in fraud.
This is different. They're saying that Trump inflated the values of his properties to achieve loans that he didn't qualify for. Those loans have all been paid off. The only debt Trump has is a recently refinanced loan one of his NY properties and a mortgage on that building he partially owns in California that he took out a cash out refinance on.
The loans they're claiming he fraudulently received have been paid back for years, ergo they can't force him to liquidate his assets and give up control, as there isn't anyone to pay back.
And no, they couldn't ask for a complete dissolution, as the Trump Group is an international organization spanning roughly 15 states, and 28 countries. The Judge has zero jurisdiction or authority over 99% of the properties that make up of the Trump Group.
And the Judge made the move (legal jargon) to prevent Trump from being able to move his assets, but it was never approved by the courts. The fact that Trump sold the DC Hotel/Post Office is proof enough of that, as if I remember correctly, it was Incorporated in NY when Trump first bought the 99 year lease on the property.
I don't think a lot of what you're saying is correct. For one, I don't think 99% of the value of the Trump organization is outside New York City.
Yes, Trump has a golf course in Scotland and a social club in Florida but when he did his valuations I was in New York organization that did them
Been looking for folks to explain what the what receivership in this case would be and loss of assets certainly seems to be a possibility because it is the receiver alongside the judge who decides what happens with the dissolution of the company
https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1706785841312370748?t=a04kLGi13ut4KxwLeZJrfA&s=19
So not a certainty but certainly a possibility.
Also in terms of debt this case goes before the same judge. Next week the AG is asking for a 250 million fine. That would be a new debt
<jumping into the discussion>
I don't know about 99%, but he has properties all over the world.
I would think that a good 80%-90% (or more) are outside of New York.
Did you know that OJ Simpson still has (AFAIK) a $30 million judgement against him for the wrongful death of Ron Goldman by Goldman's family?
He never paid any of it. Probably still looking for the "real killer."
Although there is a judgement against him, all of his assets were already legally protected.
My guess is that those NY properties have various liens on them, held by trusts outside of NY, and with trustees and beneficiaries that are not named Trump.
In theory and if that were the case, those properties could not be sold because there would be no equity, or they would be foreclosed on by those out-of-state trusts/entities, and wind up back in the family, so to speak.
I say "in theory," because we are dealing with criminals in the courtrooms and the government, so they could try all sorts of illegal games to protect themselves and their puppet masters from their own criminal prosecutions, eventually.
Yeah, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. A fine isn't a credit debt (like what you keep referring to with receiverships). It's a fine. Two legally distinct types of debts.
Second of all, I don't know what you don't seem to understand about that 4th amendment here. It prevents Trump from having to surrender his personal property (he wholely owns the entire company), to the government for any reason other than owed back taxes. If nothing else, he would simply have to pay the fine, not surrender control of his properties and liquidate them.
And finally, a quick look at Trumps ACTUAL website proves you wrong on where his property concentration is.
https://www.trump.com/
A grand total of 71 unique properties, of which 25 reside in NY. So yes my obviously exaggerate 99% wasn't true, but 65% of the Trump Groups assets and property lie outside of the Jurisdiction of NY. In fact, 18 properties, or a little over 25% of the Trump Groups assets/Properties, are in foreign nations, where not a single judge in the United States has Authority to "dissolve the organization".
For the record, Mar-A-Lago alone has an estimated Value of a little over $300 MIllion. So considering Trump's Estimated Net Worth is $2.2 Billion last I checked, Mar-A-Lago makes up 13.6% of his Net Worth.
The majority of Trumps Net Worth DID fall in New York at one point, but that's not true anymore. The majority of his Major properties have lost value and income over the past several years as NY, Chicago, etc have run the cities into the ground. On the other hand, Florida, where Trump has 7 Large scale properties, is where the largest portion of his Net Worth is now located, because property values and cap rates (The financial measure of income generated from real estate) have sky rocketed in Florida and other Southeastern States in the same period of time.
If you wanna get technical, all of his Indian Properties are up there now too since India is becoming China 2.0 in terms of economic growth, meaning it's a hotbed for rapid development.
Side note (you might find this interesting):
I read that many years ago, the Rockefeller Center was sold for mega millions.
The property was owned by a trust. The "buyer" simply set up a new trust and funded it with mega millions. Then, the trust that owned the real estate and the trust that owned the cash simply switched trustees.
Abracadabra ... no recognizable sale was made, but each party got what they wanted.
Lots of these games can be played, especially for the Rockefellers, who have trusts that were established prior to the tax law changes in 1969, making their trusts forever tax free.
When Mitt Romney ran for president, he disclosed assets and tax returns. He had a $100 million IRA. Hard to do if you are saving $5,000 per year and investing in mutual funds.
But ... if you are doing private equity deals, using Cayman Islands structures, along with some sophisticated partnership structures that your IRA owns a part of, it is easy peasy.
I have no idea what Trump's finanical structure looks like behind the scenes, but I would bet he will be alright, financially.
You can look at page 32 of the judges ruling for "entity defendants" to see what companies are involved.
There's two LLCs with DJT holdings in the name that sit atop the Trump organization and basically all the LLCs were most of them roll up into them. These entities in addition to Trump and his family, the corporations themselves were were found to be liable for fraud.
It's also clear that property outside NY is involved in this case. For example, 401 North Wabash venture, LLC is about the Trump hotel in Chicago. There's another LLC named after the old post office in DC that became the Trump hotel.
How many of the businesses outside New York City are worth anything close to what 40 Wall Street is worth? That's why I mentioned valuation, not just number of buildings. Oh, and the assessed value of Mara Lago is included in part of the trial. It's actually one of the things that was found to be fraudulent in this ruling.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=SW20FJCsispWwDnx1ms5Dw==&system=prod