The New York court system is really goofy. I read that it became so corrupt decades ago, that they had to "start over" and created a sort of parallel system. The result is that I have no idea which courts have what functions.
But as I understand it, this is a civil case at a local trial court. If so, this ruling can be appealed.
It appears to me that this judicial order was issued in violation of law.
A person cannot be convicted of fraud without any evidence being presented, under oath, and subject to cross examination.
Here is an article from a few days ago, which states that there was a hearing a few days ago, and today's "ruling" was a result of that hearing.
It does not appear that any evidence was presented. The plaintiff simply CLAIMED that she had evidence of fraud, and presented a bunch of documents.
But if there was no WITNESS in the courtroom, who could verify the documents, and state what they were and what they meant UNDER OATH, AND SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION, then NO EVIDENCE was presented to the court. It is nothing more than heresay.
In addition, there is no injured party making a claim. The NYC DA does not like the valuations that were presented to banks, but so what? The banks accepted them, issued business loans based on them, and the loans were paid back in full.
Where is the fraud? Because the NYC DA does not like the valuations (long after the fact), even though no party was harmed, and then presents NO WITNESSES to verify her claims?
There is a trial scheduled for 10/2/23, but now the issue of guilt is not to be determined at a trial, since the "judge" has already determined guilt, sans evidence.
The only thing to be determined at trial now is the penalty, which is also out of order. Besides, the "judge" has already issued a penalty with the decertification order.
What a goofy mofo this "judge" is.
Should be appealed and thrown out, with sanctions to the NYC DA and disbarment of the "judge."
Regarding the business entities, I would be shocked if Trump did not already have everything owned in trusts long ago, anyway.
But then again, for a billionaire, some of the attorneys he hires ("the best that money can buy") seem really horseshit in a lot of cases.
Also, he should already have the hotel business in one legal entity, the hotel structure in a different entity, and the land underneath it in a third structure. Probably a fourth structure to hold liens against all of it, too, and most of these structures and/or ownership (trusts) outside of New York, anyway, since New York is a shithole when it comes to this sort of thing.
It's a documents case. Many of the documents were signed by the executives of the Trump organization, basically under penalty of perjury. Businesses have to file tons of legal documents. To validate the document, the attorney general just needed to pull the official files or subpoena bank records or insurance records or tax records
This is a valuation of property case. The claim is that valuations were inflated in a fraudulent manner.
If an attorney wants to present evidence in court, the attorney can certainly submit public records, bank records, insurance records, etc.
BUT ...
The attorney CANNOT attest to those records in a court case. That is hearsay (see: Trinsey v. Pagliaro).
In order for it to be EVIDENCE to be entered into the record, there MUST be a WITNESS to testify under oath, subject to cross examination, that they have PERSONAL FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE that these records are "this" and mean "that."
Furthermore, you would need expert witness testimony as to the valuations of the properties -- testified to under oath, and subject to cross-examination -- to verify (or deny) the CLAIMS made by the prosecution.
It appears to me that NONE of that was done. Ergo, there was no evidence ON THE RECORD upon which a judge could make a lawful determination of "guilty" of fraud, and therefore, the order is a void judgement (can be appealed, or set aside by a different court, as a "void judgement").
Evidence is submitted in summary judgment motions by way of sworn testimony and authenticated documents. This was a summary judgment motion. The judge is wrong, but that is the normal process.
That sworn testimony is hearsay UNTIL someone stands up in a court room, swears to tell the truth under oath, and states what they know, based on first-hand knowledge, AND is subject to cross-examination. Maybe their only testimony is, "Yeah, I wrote and signed that affidavit and it is correct to the best of my knowledge." Fine, BUT the other party gets to CROSS-EXAMINE UNDER OATH.
Now, maybe Trump's attorneys stupidly waived his rights. Would not suprise me, necessarily, but I have not seen any evidence of that, so I can only go on what I have read and heard (which is not a lot, because I am not that interested in it -- at least, until today).
EVIDENCE must follow the Rules of Evidence, and NOTHING is evidence until it is ON THE RECORD, UNDER OATH, and SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION.
Besides all that, this case fails to state a cause of action upon which relief can be granted because there is NO INJURY to any complaining party.
The whole thing is a shit show. It will be appealed and overturned.
The article you linked appears to me to be about the AG office talking to an appraiser. That is not a deposition, and you can see that the appraiser never "got back to" the AG office with other info.
That is an investigation of an AG's office, not a deposition in a court case (which, by itself, would not be evidence, anyway).
From your article:
James has accused the appraiser of failing to fully comply with four subpoenas she has issued
Clearly, this was NOT a deposition. It was an informal discussion within the AG"s initial investigation.
"Any suggestion that Cushman & Wakefield has not responded in good faith to the Attorney General's investigation is fundamentally untrue," a company spokesperson said Monday of the AG's allegations.
"The Attorney General's filings do not accurately depict Cushman & Wakefield's responses to prior subpoenas and inquiries. We stand behind our appraisers and our work."
So ... THERE YOU HAVE IT.
The author of the article wrote a MISLEADING TITLE.
The appraiser STANDS BY their valuations.
It is only the AG who doesn't like it, and the author of the article (Laura Italiano) who apparently thinks that biased articles is some sort of stand-in for real journalism.
Regarding Laura Italiano (click on her name):
her work for Insider's Enterprise news desk is focused on the New York investigations into the Trump Organization and on related stories out of state and federal court
Which means ... she writes false hit pieces on Trump.
Here are some of the titles of her other articles:
Does Trump know how many minutes are in a day?
Donald in Wonderland
Trump keeps asking to move his March hush-money trial date because he's overbooked with criminal trials
Trump rambled so much in an NY fraud-case deposition ...
The New York court system is really goofy. I read that it became so corrupt decades ago, that they had to "start over" and created a sort of parallel system. The result is that I have no idea which courts have what functions.
But as I understand it, this is a civil case at a local trial court. If so, this ruling can be appealed.
It appears to me that this judicial order was issued in violation of law.
A person cannot be convicted of fraud without any evidence being presented, under oath, and subject to cross examination.
Here is an article from a few days ago, which states that there was a hearing a few days ago, and today's "ruling" was a result of that hearing.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/judge-hear-arguments-new-yorks-civil-suit-trump-rcna116854
However ...
It does not appear that any evidence was presented. The plaintiff simply CLAIMED that she had evidence of fraud, and presented a bunch of documents.
But if there was no WITNESS in the courtroom, who could verify the documents, and state what they were and what they meant UNDER OATH, AND SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION, then NO EVIDENCE was presented to the court. It is nothing more than heresay.
In addition, there is no injured party making a claim. The NYC DA does not like the valuations that were presented to banks, but so what? The banks accepted them, issued business loans based on them, and the loans were paid back in full.
Where is the fraud? Because the NYC DA does not like the valuations (long after the fact), even though no party was harmed, and then presents NO WITNESSES to verify her claims?
There is a trial scheduled for 10/2/23, but now the issue of guilt is not to be determined at a trial, since the "judge" has already determined guilt, sans evidence.
The only thing to be determined at trial now is the penalty, which is also out of order. Besides, the "judge" has already issued a penalty with the decertification order.
What a goofy mofo this "judge" is.
Should be appealed and thrown out, with sanctions to the NYC DA and disbarment of the "judge."
Regarding the business entities, I would be shocked if Trump did not already have everything owned in trusts long ago, anyway.
But then again, for a billionaire, some of the attorneys he hires ("the best that money can buy") seem really horseshit in a lot of cases.
Also, he should already have the hotel business in one legal entity, the hotel structure in a different entity, and the land underneath it in a third structure. Probably a fourth structure to hold liens against all of it, too, and most of these structures and/or ownership (trusts) outside of New York, anyway, since New York is a shithole when it comes to this sort of thing.
Is that you Viva?
I don't know what a "Viva" is.
Viva Frei, he’s a based lawyer with a podcast.
Oh.
No, not me.
It's a documents case. Many of the documents were signed by the executives of the Trump organization, basically under penalty of perjury. Businesses have to file tons of legal documents. To validate the document, the attorney general just needed to pull the official files or subpoena bank records or insurance records or tax records
No.
This is a valuation of property case. The claim is that valuations were inflated in a fraudulent manner.
If an attorney wants to present evidence in court, the attorney can certainly submit public records, bank records, insurance records, etc.
BUT ...
The attorney CANNOT attest to those records in a court case. That is hearsay (see: Trinsey v. Pagliaro).
In order for it to be EVIDENCE to be entered into the record, there MUST be a WITNESS to testify under oath, subject to cross examination, that they have PERSONAL FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE that these records are "this" and mean "that."
Furthermore, you would need expert witness testimony as to the valuations of the properties -- testified to under oath, and subject to cross-examination -- to verify (or deny) the CLAIMS made by the prosecution.
It appears to me that NONE of that was done. Ergo, there was no evidence ON THE RECORD upon which a judge could make a lawful determination of "guilty" of fraud, and therefore, the order is a void judgement (can be appealed, or set aside by a different court, as a "void judgement").
Evidence is submitted in summary judgment motions by way of sworn testimony and authenticated documents. This was a summary judgment motion. The judge is wrong, but that is the normal process.
That sworn testimony is hearsay UNTIL someone stands up in a court room, swears to tell the truth under oath, and states what they know, based on first-hand knowledge, AND is subject to cross-examination. Maybe their only testimony is, "Yeah, I wrote and signed that affidavit and it is correct to the best of my knowledge." Fine, BUT the other party gets to CROSS-EXAMINE UNDER OATH.
Now, maybe Trump's attorneys stupidly waived his rights. Would not suprise me, necessarily, but I have not seen any evidence of that, so I can only go on what I have read and heard (which is not a lot, because I am not that interested in it -- at least, until today).
EVIDENCE must follow the Rules of Evidence, and NOTHING is evidence until it is ON THE RECORD, UNDER OATH, and SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION.
Besides all that, this case fails to state a cause of action upon which relief can be granted because there is NO INJURY to any complaining party.
The whole thing is a shit show. It will be appealed and overturned.
I have not been following the story much.
The article you linked appears to me to be about the AG office talking to an appraiser. That is not a deposition, and you can see that the appraiser never "got back to" the AG office with other info.
That is an investigation of an AG's office, not a deposition in a court case (which, by itself, would not be evidence, anyway).
From your article:
Clearly, this was NOT a deposition. It was an informal discussion within the AG"s initial investigation.
So ... THERE YOU HAVE IT.
The author of the article wrote a MISLEADING TITLE.
The appraiser STANDS BY their valuations.
It is only the AG who doesn't like it, and the author of the article (Laura Italiano) who apparently thinks that biased articles is some sort of stand-in for real journalism.
Regarding Laura Italiano (click on her name):
Which means ... she writes false hit pieces on Trump.
Here are some of the titles of her other articles:
You have no idea what you’re talking about in regards to law Jesus