Basically, this is a common practice in real estate, to set up each and every building you own as its own separate business (in the form of an LLC), for both tax and liability purposes. They're not "dissolving the Trump Group", and they can't even touch the non NYC buildings he owns.
The only thing they CAN do is force him to create new LLCs outside of NYC and NY to now own and operate the properties, which is basically what they're doing. Essentially, the only thing they've successfully done is lose business tax revenue, since there's a 99% chance that Trump will just set up a few LLCs that are owned by independent Trusts in Florida (of more smartly, South Dakota, Delaware, or Nevada), and then everything is settled.
The New York court system is really goofy. I read that it became so corrupt decades ago, that they had to "start over" and created a sort of parallel system. The result is that I have no idea which courts have what functions.
But as I understand it, this is a civil case at a local trial court. If so, this ruling can be appealed.
It appears to me that this judicial order was issued in violation of law.
A person cannot be convicted of fraud without any evidence being presented, under oath, and subject to cross examination.
Here is an article from a few days ago, which states that there was a hearing a few days ago, and today's "ruling" was a result of that hearing.
It does not appear that any evidence was presented. The plaintiff simply CLAIMED that she had evidence of fraud, and presented a bunch of documents.
But if there was no WITNESS in the courtroom, who could verify the documents, and state what they were and what they meant UNDER OATH, AND SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION, then NO EVIDENCE was presented to the court. It is nothing more than heresay.
In addition, there is no injured party making a claim. The NYC DA does not like the valuations that were presented to banks, but so what? The banks accepted them, issued business loans based on them, and the loans were paid back in full.
Where is the fraud? Because the NYC DA does not like the valuations (long after the fact), even though no party was harmed, and then presents NO WITNESSES to verify her claims?
There is a trial scheduled for 10/2/23, but now the issue of guilt is not to be determined at a trial, since the "judge" has already determined guilt, sans evidence.
The only thing to be determined at trial now is the penalty, which is also out of order. Besides, the "judge" has already issued a penalty with the decertification order.
What a goofy mofo this "judge" is.
Should be appealed and thrown out, with sanctions to the NYC DA and disbarment of the "judge."
Regarding the business entities, I would be shocked if Trump did not already have everything owned in trusts long ago, anyway.
But then again, for a billionaire, some of the attorneys he hires ("the best that money can buy") seem really horseshit in a lot of cases.
Also, he should already have the hotel business in one legal entity, the hotel structure in a different entity, and the land underneath it in a third structure. Probably a fourth structure to hold liens against all of it, too, and most of these structures and/or ownership (trusts) outside of New York, anyway, since New York is a shithole when it comes to this sort of thing.
It's a documents case. Many of the documents were signed by the executives of the Trump organization, basically under penalty of perjury. Businesses have to file tons of legal documents. To validate the document, the attorney general just needed to pull the official files or subpoena bank records or insurance records or tax records
This is a valuation of property case. The claim is that valuations were inflated in a fraudulent manner.
If an attorney wants to present evidence in court, the attorney can certainly submit public records, bank records, insurance records, etc.
BUT ...
The attorney CANNOT attest to those records in a court case. That is hearsay (see: Trinsey v. Pagliaro).
In order for it to be EVIDENCE to be entered into the record, there MUST be a WITNESS to testify under oath, subject to cross examination, that they have PERSONAL FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE that these records are "this" and mean "that."
Furthermore, you would need expert witness testimony as to the valuations of the properties -- testified to under oath, and subject to cross-examination -- to verify (or deny) the CLAIMS made by the prosecution.
It appears to me that NONE of that was done. Ergo, there was no evidence ON THE RECORD upon which a judge could make a lawful determination of "guilty" of fraud, and therefore, the order is a void judgement (can be appealed, or set aside by a different court, as a "void judgement").
Not exactly, they just ordered the dissolution of the LLCs in NY.
https://abc7ny.com/donald-trump-news-today-president/13831659/#:~:text=The%20judge%20immediately%20canceled%20all%20of%20the%20defendants%27%20business%20certificates%20in%20New%20York%2C%20and%20ordered%20that%20they%20must%20recommend%20no%20more%20than%20three%20potential%20independent%20receivers%20to%20manage%20the%20dissolution%20of%20the%20canceled%20LLCs%20within%2010%20days.
Basically, this is a common practice in real estate, to set up each and every building you own as its own separate business (in the form of an LLC), for both tax and liability purposes. They're not "dissolving the Trump Group", and they can't even touch the non NYC buildings he owns.
The only thing they CAN do is force him to create new LLCs outside of NYC and NY to now own and operate the properties, which is basically what they're doing. Essentially, the only thing they've successfully done is lose business tax revenue, since there's a 99% chance that Trump will just set up a few LLCs that are owned by independent Trusts in Florida (of more smartly, South Dakota, Delaware, or Nevada), and then everything is settled.
The New York court system is really goofy. I read that it became so corrupt decades ago, that they had to "start over" and created a sort of parallel system. The result is that I have no idea which courts have what functions.
But as I understand it, this is a civil case at a local trial court. If so, this ruling can be appealed.
It appears to me that this judicial order was issued in violation of law.
A person cannot be convicted of fraud without any evidence being presented, under oath, and subject to cross examination.
Here is an article from a few days ago, which states that there was a hearing a few days ago, and today's "ruling" was a result of that hearing.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/judge-hear-arguments-new-yorks-civil-suit-trump-rcna116854
However ...
It does not appear that any evidence was presented. The plaintiff simply CLAIMED that she had evidence of fraud, and presented a bunch of documents.
But if there was no WITNESS in the courtroom, who could verify the documents, and state what they were and what they meant UNDER OATH, AND SUBJECT TO CROSS-EXAMINATION, then NO EVIDENCE was presented to the court. It is nothing more than heresay.
In addition, there is no injured party making a claim. The NYC DA does not like the valuations that were presented to banks, but so what? The banks accepted them, issued business loans based on them, and the loans were paid back in full.
Where is the fraud? Because the NYC DA does not like the valuations (long after the fact), even though no party was harmed, and then presents NO WITNESSES to verify her claims?
There is a trial scheduled for 10/2/23, but now the issue of guilt is not to be determined at a trial, since the "judge" has already determined guilt, sans evidence.
The only thing to be determined at trial now is the penalty, which is also out of order. Besides, the "judge" has already issued a penalty with the decertification order.
What a goofy mofo this "judge" is.
Should be appealed and thrown out, with sanctions to the NYC DA and disbarment of the "judge."
Regarding the business entities, I would be shocked if Trump did not already have everything owned in trusts long ago, anyway.
But then again, for a billionaire, some of the attorneys he hires ("the best that money can buy") seem really horseshit in a lot of cases.
Also, he should already have the hotel business in one legal entity, the hotel structure in a different entity, and the land underneath it in a third structure. Probably a fourth structure to hold liens against all of it, too, and most of these structures and/or ownership (trusts) outside of New York, anyway, since New York is a shithole when it comes to this sort of thing.
It's a documents case. Many of the documents were signed by the executives of the Trump organization, basically under penalty of perjury. Businesses have to file tons of legal documents. To validate the document, the attorney general just needed to pull the official files or subpoena bank records or insurance records or tax records
No.
This is a valuation of property case. The claim is that valuations were inflated in a fraudulent manner.
If an attorney wants to present evidence in court, the attorney can certainly submit public records, bank records, insurance records, etc.
BUT ...
The attorney CANNOT attest to those records in a court case. That is hearsay (see: Trinsey v. Pagliaro).
In order for it to be EVIDENCE to be entered into the record, there MUST be a WITNESS to testify under oath, subject to cross examination, that they have PERSONAL FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE that these records are "this" and mean "that."
Furthermore, you would need expert witness testimony as to the valuations of the properties -- testified to under oath, and subject to cross-examination -- to verify (or deny) the CLAIMS made by the prosecution.
It appears to me that NONE of that was done. Ergo, there was no evidence ON THE RECORD upon which a judge could make a lawful determination of "guilty" of fraud, and therefore, the order is a void judgement (can be appealed, or set aside by a different court, as a "void judgement").