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Can you share what verse you are talking about.
Are you suggesting that God wanted pharah to reject him?
https://www.gotquestions.org/God-harden-Pharaoh-heart.html
This is turning into a free will vs gods sovereignty discussion. At any time pharaoh could have chosen to turn back to God. God being outside of time knew he wouldn't. Yet he still could have
Exodus 4:21 is the setup. God says he will harden pharaoh's heart so that he will not let the people go.
It's mentioned numerous times that God hardened his heart throughout the narrative. He's not they only one. Deut 2:30, Josh 11:20, Isa 63:17. Ask mention God hardened individuals and whole people groups.
Paul confirmed this is Romans 9:17.
God raised people up, hardens their hearts fire they purpose of God showing his power over them in their destruction.
Romans 9:16 NKJV [16] So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
My first point was this. Just because someone is doing the work of evil doesn't mean we can then say oh they will never come back to God. That understanding is outside ours. God can bring anyone he chooses back to him. He doesn't make creations to not serve him however he knows what we will do before we do so he might use our choice to not choose him as a way to influence others. We don't get to say things like this person could ever come to God. We should hope all his creations should return to him
Yes he hardened his heart because he knew he wouldn't choose him. Are you suggesting that a loving God creates his creation so they WONT choose him. That's kinda a silly argument. The choice to come to God is always present. He will use our rejection to serve other purposes though.
God is outside time though and knows what we will do before we do it. It's the free will vs sovernty debate
As I have said it's the free will vs gods sovereignty debate. It's a round and round discussion. Pharaoh's had a whole life of choices though. God knew what he would do but there was still a choice
At no time did I say Pharoah's acts weren't his own or that he doesn't have responsibility for his actions or that he had no choice. But I don't know how anyone could read the text as plainly as it is in Exodus, Romans and other places and not see that God definitely influences people by either secondary means, his direct actions, or by withdrawing his Spirit or by sending an evil spirit as he did with King Saul.
If this bothers your conscience, then ignore it at your own peril. You either build who you want God to be in your own mind, or you let God tell you who he is. God's purposes are his own and they are manifold. If he wants to hardened someone's heart for the purposes of showing his power and might in judgement over an entire civilization of people, that is his prerogative. Place whatever caveat you want on God's actions over Pharaoh except that God did nothing and let Pharaoh just do what he was already going to do. That is obviously not the meaning of the text. God is not impotent and when the text says he does something, he did something.
I'm not saying people don't have free agency. I'm not saying God chooses for us. I'm saying God, who rightly so holds every human life in his hand; God who can take life or give it at his own command in perfect justice; He works for His own good pleasure His will. If that means creating a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction, then so be it. Those are His words, not mine. How else do you explain entire civilizations that God allowed to exist with no special knowledge of him, doomed from their inception. Our loving God didn't have to save one person and he would have still been perfectly loving. To insinuate that our loving God has to by the necessity that you place on him restrain his judgement on the wicked whom he created in order for you to call him loving is disgusting and naive. It diminishes the grace that he offered you. We should look at Pharoah and say, "there, but for the grace of God, go I."
I don't condemn your statements but rather admonish you to examine whether your ideas about God are His ideas, or your ideas. I once stood where you are and put God in my box, and I'm sure I still do in areas that I am still blind. I only call your idea disgusting and naive because I certainly am disgusting and naive in far too many areas of my own life. Thank our creator that his grace is greater than our sin. I have no doubt given what you wrote that He loves you with His redeeming grace and if we met in person I would call you brother.
I am talking about the free agency side of things. Not the gods sovernty side of things. Again we are in this silly sovereignty vs free will debate where we each are describing a side. :)
That's probably why you find things disgusting. It doesn't help that you are thinking you know where I am at in my walk with Jesus. It's all good though. Jesus knows.😉😎
Thanks for the sermon 😂 just being silly now. Love you have a blessed day. Until next time
Exodus 7:3? Not sure if that is what he means lol personally I feel God already knew Pharaoh's heart, but God always wants for us to turn back to Him.
Yes exactly. God knows the heart he is outside time and our understanding
He trusted The Plan. Perhaps he was doing God's will, how can we know?
God knows the heart. He might use that to carry out his will for a time. However his will is that we know him. All things work towards this. He does allow free will though. However he always allows us to return to him