I’m on an island among Christians, but I think you make a good point. That’s why I believe God is omniscient, but in that He knows all POSSIBLE future outcomes. God tried to steer humanity towards Him with certain methods, the flood, the exodus, but people continue to turn. I believe God saw these things as ways to help people turn towards Him, and it was possible. God foresaw a path where humans would come to repentance for those things, but it didn’t happen. In the end God had to come down Himself to solve the problem, which was always His ace in the hole, but He would have preferred not to do it that way. Does that make sense? God is never surprised by anything, and will always make it work, but He would have rather had humanity turn earlier, but since we have free will we continually choose ourselves over others. Think about it like a web of possibilities, God knows the infinite possibilities, nothing surprises Him, and He reacts to humans perfectly. But us humans with free will keep on screwing up so in the end He said ‘I’ve given you enough shots at it, I’ll do it myself’, and brings Jesus.
You sure are, island-wise, at least among modern Evangelicals/Fundamentalists. I was just talking about this to someone else on here last week. It's an interesting conversation to have. It sounds like you might subscribe to open theism:
https://greatawakening.win/p/17siA13gBi/x/c/4ZA1LBkJQjw
Oh man, what a great read (the back and forth I the comments were great too). I’m glad folks are open to discussing the Christian’s Gods omniscience - the character it would invoke otherwise lacks greatly when taken at face value, a huge early red pill for me - but I can’t help but think these conversations only exist to provide the God of the text some way of saving face. Thats my obviously completely cynical take on it, though.
I still Dr Heiser there does a LOT of water carrying in this regard, as pointed out by other commentators.
God doesn’t need to save face, He’s the creator of the universe. And I get people thinking he’s carrying water, but honestly I think his points are valid here and make sense to me. But I guess we’ll see in the end for sure. My faith in the Bible comes from the insane amount of evidence for the resurrection, Heiser is trying to explain the unknowable which is difficult but I think his explanation is best, but the resurrection can be known and it’s what my faith is based on
I’m somewhat an open theist, but God will make sure to make all predictions about the future come to pass, no matter our choices. He made sure Jesus would come, and He will make sure Revelation happens as foretold. God has predetermined certain events, but chooses to let us make decisions, then reacts.
I’m on an island among Christians, but I think you make a good point. That’s why I believe God is omniscient, but in that He knows all POSSIBLE future outcomes. God tried to steer humanity towards Him with certain methods, the flood, the exodus, but people continue to turn. I believe God saw these things as ways to help people turn towards Him, and it was possible. God foresaw a path where humans would come to repentance for those things, but it didn’t happen. In the end God had to come down Himself to solve the problem, which was always His ace in the hole, but He would have preferred not to do it that way. Does that make sense? God is never surprised by anything, and will always make it work, but He would have rather had humanity turn earlier, but since we have free will we continually choose ourselves over others. Think about it like a web of possibilities, God knows the infinite possibilities, nothing surprises Him, and He reacts to humans perfectly. But us humans with free will keep on screwing up so in the end He said ‘I’ve given you enough shots at it, I’ll do it myself’, and brings Jesus.
You sure are, island-wise, at least among modern Evangelicals/Fundamentalists. I was just talking about this to someone else on here last week. It's an interesting conversation to have. It sounds like you might subscribe to open theism: https://greatawakening.win/p/17siA13gBi/x/c/4ZA1LBkJQjw
Also read this for more explanation, I think Heiser aligns with my beliefs here: https://drmsh.com/predestination-and-free-will-a-summary-of-the-naked-bibles-position/
Oh man, what a great read (the back and forth I the comments were great too). I’m glad folks are open to discussing the Christian’s Gods omniscience - the character it would invoke otherwise lacks greatly when taken at face value, a huge early red pill for me - but I can’t help but think these conversations only exist to provide the God of the text some way of saving face. Thats my obviously completely cynical take on it, though.
I still Dr Heiser there does a LOT of water carrying in this regard, as pointed out by other commentators.
God doesn’t need to save face, He’s the creator of the universe. And I get people thinking he’s carrying water, but honestly I think his points are valid here and make sense to me. But I guess we’ll see in the end for sure. My faith in the Bible comes from the insane amount of evidence for the resurrection, Heiser is trying to explain the unknowable which is difficult but I think his explanation is best, but the resurrection can be known and it’s what my faith is based on
I’m somewhat an open theist, but God will make sure to make all predictions about the future come to pass, no matter our choices. He made sure Jesus would come, and He will make sure Revelation happens as foretold. God has predetermined certain events, but chooses to let us make decisions, then reacts.