Of course there is a "counter-argument." I gave it. It is a free-will transaction of a market commodity. No one is harmed by it, although people often complain about paying a price for anything. Should everything be free? Not likely. Should we countenance theft? I don't think so.
You are an anti-free-market nut job. You see evil all around you, while the rest of society sees it as a helpful necessity. No sin is committed. Bankers were accepted in the time of Christ, where it was expected that debts would be repaid with interest.
So, let me get this straight---you condemn all Jews because you want to live like an orthodox Jew? But you don't condemn gentiles?
I take my advice from a tenured professor in accounting. All loans should be government loans and should be interest free.
The Bible backs him with the interpretation that usury of any kind at any rate is inherently not beneficial to society as a whole. Ofc it exists. It shouldn't. But it does. And yes you can participate in it freely if you choose to. I chose not to. As a result I'm poor. I'm okay with the consequences of that belief.
Nothing is free. I agree. But we can have ppl live comfortably without having to pay hundreds n hundreds over n over n over with no prospect of ever owning anything. Why work hard? So you can have another Lamborghini? Like? Good for you? I live in a cage. I work in a cage and you think your witness of Christ Resurrected is just ..... a beaming light of hope to the world bc obviously christ blessed you and redeemed you and if i act like you, work hard, then i too can buy a property and make money doing nothing too and then i can start a business and once i can pay someone less than they're worth, and they agree to it, i can exploit them, in perpetuity....
Ain't it great?
No thanks fren. I hope I'm blessed with wealth but not at anyone's exploitation.
"Should" according to who and where? You are evading the fact that this is an Old Testament injunction to be followed by Jews among Jews. It does not apply to Jews lending money to Gentiles ("foreigners"). It completely does not apply to Gentiles. Are you a Jew? Do you want to alter the Constitution to forbid interest-bearing loans? If you don't, and you are willing to let a free market prevail, then you are sounding a trumpet at the mountains. The mountains don't care...and neither do I. You can wear your righteousness on a shirt, for all the good it will do you.
No one is exploited who has the freedom to make financial arrangements to their own purpose and preference. Banks are not sending out dragoon squads to bring people in to be creditors. It is perhaps pointless to explain to you that sometimes it makes more sense to obtain an asset first, to gain the means of increasing income, and thereby repay the asset over time. It sounds like that arrangement is beyond your ken.
Casting scorn on "usury" is NOT a purpose of this site.
You enjoy your money but I can tell you're not wealthy.
Your understanding of Bible n verse seems like you have heart of stone. It seems like you operate exclusively from the flesh. It sounds as if you're heavily invested and involved in finances. It seems like for you to accept that usury is evil would involve your entire life being be effected. I understand why you're against such a concept and why you defend it so.
I understand your strategy as far attaining assets, I'm telling you, it's wrong. You don't pay off assets over time after taking a loan out. You don't take an interest bearing loan for it to begin with.
Everything about your life revolves around your financial competency. Your friends, family I'm even guessing your place in the church, your entire being is derived from your financial success in finance.
When the economy collapses (and all usury derived models show it will inevitably collapse) and all the financial wealth of all your wealthy friends family & congregation disappears along with yours - at least you will have your Bible verses to point them to but you certainly won't have answers for why it's all gone.
No one is free to make financial arrangements of their own purpose and preference. That's not how banks operate. Banks operate out of the abundance of love of money.
Therefore, by default, Christians that work in finance should be approached with the greatest skepticism and treated as some of the very worst humanity can offer. Like a used car salesmen that has a reputation of selling stolen cars.
A person might know that usury is a sin but its the one that justifies the sin that is more careless and disobedient.
I have a native American friend. Their treaty is with the Crown. Written on crown paper, in the crowns language, with crown letterhead, with a crown representative and the crowns signature; who's contract is it?
Likewise. If I take a loan out. It's in the banks terms it is not a "financial arrangement of my own purpose and preference " nor is the labour contract w my employer or my rental agreement w my landlord. In every case its someone else's terms that I'm agreeing to. And in every case the language is written to destroy ppl slowly. You might suggest that I don't sign then. I don't. That's why I'm poor.
Heavenly Father
I thank you for the abudance I've been blessed with. I really wanted to help that man out with a car loan lord, but he wanted a no interest loan and lord, I just can't loan out money unless I'm getting a 2.5% return on my investment. I just can't, not make money. If I don't make money for doing nothing except having the money lord then why do I have all this money? I'm clearly blessed so that I can always make interest on the money I loan.
Thank you lord for making me rich and them poor. For making me financially literate and them stoopid for not understanding usury.
Amen?
I am sorry that this concept might blow apart your world view.
I do not accept any freely chosen bargain to be a compromise of liberty, otherwise there would be no trade and no free market. Money is an asset like any other, and can morally be traded or rented. My understanding of the Bible is clear, and you have no refutation.
Your ideas of me are self-serving fantasy and I won't comment further.
Of course there is a "counter-argument." I gave it. It is a free-will transaction of a market commodity. No one is harmed by it, although people often complain about paying a price for anything. Should everything be free? Not likely. Should we countenance theft? I don't think so.
You are an anti-free-market nut job. You see evil all around you, while the rest of society sees it as a helpful necessity. No sin is committed. Bankers were accepted in the time of Christ, where it was expected that debts would be repaid with interest.
So, let me get this straight---you condemn all Jews because you want to live like an orthodox Jew? But you don't condemn gentiles?
I take my advice from a tenured professor in accounting. All loans should be government loans and should be interest free.
The Bible backs him with the interpretation that usury of any kind at any rate is inherently not beneficial to society as a whole. Ofc it exists. It shouldn't. But it does. And yes you can participate in it freely if you choose to. I chose not to. As a result I'm poor. I'm okay with the consequences of that belief.
Nothing is free. I agree. But we can have ppl live comfortably without having to pay hundreds n hundreds over n over n over with no prospect of ever owning anything. Why work hard? So you can have another Lamborghini? Like? Good for you? I live in a cage. I work in a cage and you think your witness of Christ Resurrected is just ..... a beaming light of hope to the world bc obviously christ blessed you and redeemed you and if i act like you, work hard, then i too can buy a property and make money doing nothing too and then i can start a business and once i can pay someone less than they're worth, and they agree to it, i can exploit them, in perpetuity....
Ain't it great?
No thanks fren. I hope I'm blessed with wealth but not at anyone's exploitation.
"Should" according to who and where? You are evading the fact that this is an Old Testament injunction to be followed by Jews among Jews. It does not apply to Jews lending money to Gentiles ("foreigners"). It completely does not apply to Gentiles. Are you a Jew? Do you want to alter the Constitution to forbid interest-bearing loans? If you don't, and you are willing to let a free market prevail, then you are sounding a trumpet at the mountains. The mountains don't care...and neither do I. You can wear your righteousness on a shirt, for all the good it will do you.
No one is exploited who has the freedom to make financial arrangements to their own purpose and preference. Banks are not sending out dragoon squads to bring people in to be creditors. It is perhaps pointless to explain to you that sometimes it makes more sense to obtain an asset first, to gain the means of increasing income, and thereby repay the asset over time. It sounds like that arrangement is beyond your ken.
Casting scorn on "usury" is NOT a purpose of this site.
You enjoy your money but I can tell you're not wealthy.
Your understanding of Bible n verse seems like you have heart of stone. It seems like you operate exclusively from the flesh. It sounds as if you're heavily invested and involved in finances. It seems like for you to accept that usury is evil would involve your entire life being be effected. I understand why you're against such a concept and why you defend it so.
I understand your strategy as far attaining assets, I'm telling you, it's wrong. You don't pay off assets over time after taking a loan out. You don't take an interest bearing loan for it to begin with.
Everything about your life revolves around your financial competency. Your friends, family I'm even guessing your place in the church, your entire being is derived from your financial success in finance.
When the economy collapses (and all usury derived models show it will inevitably collapse) and all the financial wealth of all your wealthy friends family & congregation disappears along with yours - at least you will have your Bible verses to point them to but you certainly won't have answers for why it's all gone.
No one is free to make financial arrangements of their own purpose and preference. That's not how banks operate. Banks operate out of the abundance of love of money.
Therefore, by default, Christians that work in finance should be approached with the greatest skepticism and treated as some of the very worst humanity can offer. Like a used car salesmen that has a reputation of selling stolen cars.
A person might know that usury is a sin but its the one that justifies the sin that is more careless and disobedient.
I have a native American friend. Their treaty is with the Crown. Written on crown paper, in the crowns language, with crown letterhead, with a crown representative and the crowns signature; who's contract is it?
Likewise. If I take a loan out. It's in the banks terms it is not a "financial arrangement of my own purpose and preference " nor is the labour contract w my employer or my rental agreement w my landlord. In every case its someone else's terms that I'm agreeing to. And in every case the language is written to destroy ppl slowly. You might suggest that I don't sign then. I don't. That's why I'm poor.
Heavenly Father
I thank you for the abudance I've been blessed with. I really wanted to help that man out with a car loan lord, but he wanted a no interest loan and lord, I just can't loan out money unless I'm getting a 2.5% return on my investment. I just can't, not make money. If I don't make money for doing nothing except having the money lord then why do I have all this money? I'm clearly blessed so that I can always make interest on the money I loan.
Thank you lord for making me rich and them poor. For making me financially literate and them stoopid for not understanding usury.
Amen?
I am sorry that this concept might blow apart your world view.
I do not accept any freely chosen bargain to be a compromise of liberty, otherwise there would be no trade and no free market. Money is an asset like any other, and can morally be traded or rented. My understanding of the Bible is clear, and you have no refutation.
Your ideas of me are self-serving fantasy and I won't comment further.